General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
I called Theresa May’s NHS lies ‘bollocks’ on live TV. Now I’m voting Labour - Mark Wilson

Mark Wilson said:
I put my name down to be in the audience during Jeremy Paxman’s questioning of Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May on Monday night because I wanted to ask either or both of them a question. I was, for the first time, an undecided voter so I hoped it would help me to make up my mind about who I should vote for. I have always voted, but this time around I had actually considered not voting at all, because I have found this general election rather tedious.

In the end, I wasn’t one of the people chosen to ask a question, but I was still just happy to see how Corbyn and May responded.

I felt that Corbyn had been asked much tougher questions from the audience than May and I thought he responded very well, in particular the question about him being a terrorist sympathiser decades ago. I actually began to warm to him. Before this debate I wasn’t convinced.

May had an easier ride throughout and seemed to drag out the replies to the audience questions. She seemed unable to answer a simple yes or no to anything she was asked.

To sit there and hear her sidestep when questioned over the blatant lies regarding the supposed £350m for the NHS after Brexit smacked of arrogance. She claims to represent and respect the will of the people, yet she wouldn’t honour the £350m pledge that had influenced the small majority to vote to leave the EU. May then went on to say that her government had put a lot of money into the NHS. Where that money is nobody knows, because the doctors and nurses certainly don’t seem to have seen an improvement....
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https://www.theguardian.com/comment...nhs-lies-bollocks-voting-labour-jeremy-corbyn
 
ThierryHenry said:
To add another antagonistic anecdote - a friend of mine is door knocking for Labour in London, I asked him for his thoughts on the yougov report. He says that "people absolutely hate us" and thinks the party will still get slaughtered. And that's in London...

I've obviously no idea what's going to happen, but would recommend tempering enthusiasm.
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Where in London is this though?
 
Raees said:
No chance. If Lib Dems want any chance of remaining relevant, this is their chance to make up for the debacle of 2010. If they side with the Tories again, they're finished once and for all.
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You are probably right.

Still, if the Tories *just* fail to get over the line, what other choice is there?

Lib Dem and Tory OR Lib Dem and Labour and SNP and Green and ?

Could get messy. Maybe a Tory minority government would stay in power.
 
The new YouGov model has Tories winning Kensington by two points...hmm.
 
I still don't see why people feel that Corbyn is any more competent to run the country than May. Just because he seems to be a nice chap doesn't qualify him for Prime Minister. Labour will take delight in bankrupting the country (again) and then leave the Tories to sort out the mess, who will be seen as mean. If they actually run the country in such a way as to break even, which they never ever and will never ever do, even during the good times, then we wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

The big issue here is that we are stuck with this fecking Bexit bollocks which only, only, has downsides.
 
Sassy Colin said:
I still don't see why people feel that Corbyn is any more competent to run the country than May. Just because he seems to be a nice chap doesn't qualify him for Prime Minister. Labour will take delight in bankrupting the country (again) and then leave the Tories to sort out the mess, who will be seen as mean. If they actually run the country in such a way as to break even, which they never ever and will never ever do, even during the good times, then we wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

The big issue here is that we are stuck with this fecking Bexit bollocks which only, only, has downsides.
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Tories sort out the mess? Is that why public services are collapsing and the deficit has gone up?
 
Sassy Colin said:
I still don't see why people feel that Corbyn is any more competent to run the country than May. Just because he seems to be a nice chap doesn't qualify him for Prime Minister. Labour will take delight in bankrupting the country (again) and then leave the Tories to sort out the mess, who will be seen as mean. If they actually run the country in such a way as to break even, which they never ever and will never ever do, even during the good times, then we wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

The big issue here is that we are stuck with this fecking Bexit bollocks which only, only, has downsides.
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No offence Colin, but we are seeing cuts left right and centre.. yet the deficit has grown?

Also this decision to adopt a hard brexit, in what world are the Conservatives to be trusted with the economy?

Are they not as likely to bankrupt us as the Labour Party?
 
Adzzz said:
Tories sort out the mess? Is that why public services are collapsing and the deficit has gone up?
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:confused:

ukgs_chartDp01t.png


http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_deficit_analysis
 
Deficit isn't going up guys. It's not shrinking at the rate they said it would, but it is going down.
 
Raees said:
No offence Colin, but we are seeing cuts left right and centre.. yet the deficit has grown?

Also this decision to adopt a hard brexit, in what world are the Conservatives to be trusted with the economy?

Are they not as likely to bankrupt us as the Labour Party?
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The whole problem is this Brexit bollocks, it's idiotic.

I am still waiting to hear one single benefit of leaving, anything at all.
 
If we had a Labour government now, the Tories would be showing that debt graph everywhere as proof that 'Labour can't be trusted on the economy'. Yet because its a Tory government its supposed to be positive..
 
Ubik said:
Deficit isn't going up guys. It's not shrinking at the rate they said it would, but it is going down.
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It's a pet hate of mine when people don't get the difference between the two, and it seems a pretty common misunderstanding. It's such a huge difference and people are voting on this as a major issue.
 
Kentonio said:
If we had a Labour government now, the Tories would be showing that debt graph everywhere as proof that 'Labour can't be trusted on the economy'. Yet because its a Tory government its supposed to be positive..
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The classic labour are bad with money meme I've always felt is used as a justification to sponsor policies that visibly impact the poorest in our society and our public services. It's a good way to absolve any guilt when you believe the alternative is some sort of wild night at the casino throwing away the nations wealth, even though it's patently bollocks. If only Blair and Brown hadn't sold all those sub-prime mortgages!
 
Sassy Colin said:
The only way to reduce the overall debt is to spend less than you earn, i.e. balance the budget. When/if they can balance the budget, then you are in position to increase spending.
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You categorically said they fix the mess, now the debt is rising and the deficit is dropping but not at levels they expected or wanted. So what exactly are they fixing? It certainly isn't the NHS, which the Naylor Report is about to sell, nor is has it fixed the increased use of foodbanks. Austerity doesn't work, if it did, surely the deficit would be dropping as they expected, because austerity is working exactly as they expected.
 
Adzzz said:
You categorically said they fix the mess, now the debt is rising and the deficit is dropping but not at levels they expected or wanted. So what exactly are they fixing? It certainly isn't the NHS, which the Naylor Report is about to sell, nor is increased use of foodbanks. Austerity doesn't work, if it did, surely the deficit would be dropping as they expected, because austerity is working exactly as they expected.
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If only economic models worked out exactly as planned.
 
Sassy Colin said:
I still don't see why people feel that Corbyn is any more competent to run the country than May. Just because he seems to be a nice chap doesn't qualify him for Prime Minister. Labour will take delight in bankrupting the country (again) and then leave the Tories to sort out the mess, who will be seen as mean. If they actually run the country in such a way as to break even, which they never ever and will never ever do, even during the good times, then we wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

The big issue here is that we are stuck with this fecking Bexit bollocks which only, only, has downsides.
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He's in no way, shape or form, more competent than May. Every poll has May being the "better" Prime Minister.

But maybe people are coming round to him being, not a horrible person? It's very rare for a sitting government to increase their majority, maybe Labour "naturally" should be doing a lot better than they are, and we are just seeing a swing towards the natural as the Telegraph/Times/Sun/Express/Mail bias is removed, as people get to know him.

Also, from 1997 to 2007, we pretty much always had more growth than we have had under the Tory government. As much as closing the deficit is important, some proper growth would do wonders right now. There is a good chance we won't be "paying off the debt" even under a Conservative government, so the other option is grow, and shrink the debt that way.

Don't forget the UK had a non-negligible deficit from 1990-1996 under the Tories. Very similar in fact to the deficit from 2002 to 2007 under Labour. The difference being, Labour's ended with the financial crash. Also note Labour avoided the early 2000's dot com bubble (but I'm not giving them credit for that).
 
Brexit has actually played relatively little part in the campaign though.

Labour has offered a tonne of nostalgic renationalisation, albeit with the ongoing costs left out, and 25bn/yr in additional borrowing (still won't reverse Osborne's benefits policies tho). It sounds nice do voters, but falls down on the maths. They've got a pass, however, because Theresa May led off with a money grab on the elderly and minimal new investment. To say nothing of the authoritarian stuff.

It's been a PR fiasco for much of the time as well.

The Lib Dems have at least shown some imagination with their manifesto, even if i oppose them on the EU. They deserve more credit than Labour on the NHS in particular.
 
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Some pretty odd results throughout that YouGov model. I know they're saying it got the EUref right (though they still managed to put out a 10,000 sample poll on the night showing a remain +4 win, but anyway), but forecasting a constituency-by-constituency election with 4+ parties standing in each is different to a binary choice across the country.
 
Sassy Colin said:
The only way to reduce the overall debt is to spend less than you earn, i.e. balance the budget. When/if they can balance the budget, then you are in position to increase spending.
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Where are you getting this from ?

 
People are suffering big time under austerity - it's a failure. People should be living and living well, otherwise what is the point? We need to increase government spending to ensure a happier population in my opinion.
 
Sassy Colin said:
If only economic models worked out exactly as planned.
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This only immediately disproves the idea they fix things, anyone can get it wrong, getting it knowingly wrong and ruining public services in the process is the clear and obvious danger surely?
 
Sassy Colin said:
The only way to reduce the overall debt is to spend less than you earn, i.e. balance the budget. When/if they can balance the budget, then you are in position to increase spending.
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2015/apr/29/the-austerity-delusion

https://qz.com/69302/austerity-is-bad-economic-policy/

the trouble with austerity is that it is contractionary—that is, austerity tends to slow down the economy. In bad economic times, people can’t get jobs because businesses aren’t hiring, and businesses are not hiring because people aren’t spending. So in bad economic times, it adds insult to injury when the government does less spending, less hiring, and taxes more money out of the pockets of those who would otherwise spend.

The contractionary effect of austerity creates a dilemma, not only because a slower economy is painful for the people involved—that is, just about everyone—but also because tax revenue falls when the economy slows down, making it harder to rein in government debt.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Brexit has actually played relatively little part in the campaign though.

Labour has offered a tonne of nostalgic renationalisation, albeit with the ongoing costs left out, and 25bn/yr in additional borrowing (still won't reverse Osborne's benefits policies tho). It sounds nice do voters, but falls down on the maths. They've got a pass, however, because Theresa May led off with a money grab on the elderly and scant little in new investment. To say nothing of the authoritarian stuff.

It's been a PR fiasco for much of the time as well.
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What planet do you live on and do they do direct flights from Earth?
 
Thing is @Sassy Colin you're treating an economy as how you would manage the economy of a household.. it is much more complex than that.
 
Adzzz said:
Tories sort out the mess? Is that why public services are collapsing and the deficit has gone up?
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The deficit has come down greatly. We could have broken even this parliament without Brexit. Debt to GDP has gone up severely however.
 
Thing is @Sassy Colin you're treating an economy as how you would manage the economy of a household.. it is much more complex than that.
 
Don't forget, Damen und Herren: forced poverty makes you 'aspirational' and 'independent'.
 
Sassy Coln said:
The only way to reduce the overall debt is to spend less than you earn, i.e. balance the budget. When/if they can balance the budget, then you are in position to increase spending.
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Government debt is 90% GDP

Would you rather have 0 deficit, and 0% growth,
Or 5% deficit and 5% growth.
Or 10% deficit and 10% growth.
 
Dobba said:
What planet do you live on and do they do direct flights from Earth?
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On the supposedly 'zero cost' renationalisation of three major industries, they've been given a very easy time indeed. Similarly with the extent of their borrowing proposals.
 
Raees said:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2015/apr/29/the-austerity-delusion

https://qz.com/69302/austerity-is-bad-economic-policy/

the trouble with austerity is that it is contractionary—that is, austerity tends to slow down the economy. In bad economic times, people can’t get jobs because businesses aren’t hiring, and businesses are not hiring because people aren’t spending. So in bad economic times, it adds insult to injury when the government does less spending, less hiring, and taxes more money out of the pockets of those who would otherwise spend.

The contractionary effect of austerity creates a dilemma, not only because a slower economy is painful for the people involved—that is, just about everyone—but also because tax revenue falls when the economy slows down, making it harder to rein in government debt.
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The key is where you spend the money. There is currently far too much wasted on inefficiency and red tape, a lot of it produced under Blair's government. Strip that away under austerity and invest in real growth areas like infrastucture and public services. May doesn't seem to get the latter and Corbyn definitely doesn't get the former.
 
11101 said:
The key is where you spend the money. There is currently far too much wasted on inefficiency and red tape, a lot of it produced under Blair's government. Strip that away under austerity and invest in real growth areas like infrastucture and public services. May doesn't seem to get the latter and Corbyn definitely doesn't get the former.
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Ah yes, the phantom 'waste' like the thousands of police who we no longer have, and the 8 hours a night doctors and nurses used to waste sleeping when they could have been working.
 
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