The Spurs thread | 2017-18 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in the top four in the upcoming season?

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GlastonSpur said:
Well, it's going right in the CL so far, but a bit of blip in the Prem to be sure.

Injuries are part of it - Alderweireld is a big miss, Kane doesn't look to be back yet to his full fitness and Wanyama's been out for a long while. The latter wouldn't matter that much, except Dier has had to drop into the back 3 and Winks has been out for a few games ... which means a weaker CM.

But the main problem for us - the Leicester game apart - comes from teams that sit back and pack their defence (which is the majority who come to Wembley) .... we've been unable to find sufficient ways to unpick them, so we sometimes over-commit to attack in desperation and end up conceding.
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ie: poch is not the tactical maestro you and others made him out to be. He’s been found out and doesn’t know what to do next.

I’m also very glad to note that it was José Mourinho who showed PL teams how to do this.
 
Mourinho 10 points ahead with 12 more goals scored and 4 less goals conceded. Unbelievable to think Mourinho isn’t as good
 
So, Tottenham aren’t as good as the media and the resident Spurs tried to convince us they are.
 
That's Kane, Ali, and Eriksen gone to fund the stadium. Stadium costs might be spiralling upwards but the performances are going downwards to offset it, so no need to worry for Spurs fans.

The Wembley move ducked them over big time, everyone could see it coming.
 
The form they have since we beat them have been terrible. 4 straight games without a win. They got lucky against Palace who played better against them and should have scored 2-3 goals in that game.

Pochettino could be in some trouble right now. The lack of squad depth I guess do hurt them although they don't have that many players out. Wannayama has been a huge miss for them all season though. Alderweireld is key to the defense as well. Still though the big stars up front have been fit and they have done well in the champions league.

Part of me feel a bit bad they are doing bad cause Liverpool will get top 4 most likely again.
 
Another poor result, their top 4 dreams are fading a bit now, they really need a resurgence. Would much rather they get it than Liverpool so rooting for them!
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
So, Tottenham aren’t as good as the media and the resident Spurs tried to convince us they are.
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They have been overhyped and maybe it is an added factor to them struggling. Wembley plus too high expectations could get to them. Smaller teams raise the game more against them as well.

Normally the team to beat is us due to being the biggest club, the recent champions, the top team in the league at the moment and Liverpool due to history and recent history. Spurs now playing at Wembley and being more hyped up make smaller team see the game against them as bigger.
 
Kraftwerker said:
This is why all the hot air about spurs being a well run club is just that.

They should’ve built the stadium at least a decade ago when market conditions were much more favourable.
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It's not like Levy to wait.....and wait.......and wait......even if it's to the detriment of his club. Genius businessman, though.
 
sammsky1 said:
ie: poch is not the tactical maestro you and others made him out to be. He’s been found out and doesn’t know what to do next.

I’m also very glad to note that it was José Mourinho who showed PL teams how to do this.
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prath92 said:
Mourinho 10 points ahead with 12 more goals scored and 4 less goals conceded. Unbelievable to think Mourinho isn’t as good
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So if Jose is the (and I quote) "outdated", "Dinosaur", "Defensive", "Can't coach attacking players", "Coward. What does that make Poch chops?

This is why these types of comments will always backfire and deserve to be answered with nothing but the contempt they were written with.
 
Adisa said:
Apparently, stadium costs spiralling.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...new-Tottenham-stadium-soars-1bn.html#comments
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Random Task said:
Quite how they could have misjudged the initial projection costs is beyond me. Did they not take in to consideration the sheer complexity of the project? I mean to go from £400m to £1billion inside a 2 year period is absolutely outrageous.

How do they plan to fund such a costly venture?
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Maybe we could come to the rescue and unburden them by removing 2-3 players wages in the transfer window?
 
Kraftwerker said:
This is why all the hot air about spurs being a well run club is just that.

They should’ve built the stadium at least a decade ago when market conditions were much more favourable.
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A decade ago, we were bang in the middle of a financial crisis and credit crunch.
Would have been expensive raising that kind of money.
 
EyeInTheSky said:
Maybe we could come to the rescue and unburden them by removing 2-3 players wages in the transfer window?
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That's a very charitable suggestion, you're a real humanitarian.

Since they are a club in crisis, it stands to reason that the eventual transfer fees will be heavily reduced. In light of that fact it would be only fair to choose the 3 players at random, as in throwing their entire squad in to a hat - a top hat in this case - and drawing out 3 names. Completely and utterly random. I just did a trial run and here are the names that were drawn;

Dele Alli
Harry Kane
Eriksen (sorry don't know his first name!)

How's that suit ya, bro?
 
Random Task said:
Quite how they could have misjudged the initial projection costs is beyond me. Did they not take in to consideration the sheer complexity of the project? I mean to go from £400m to £1billion inside a 2 year period is absolutely outrageous.

How do they plan to fund such a costly venture?
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The same thing happened to Wembley, yet the Allianz Arena cost around EUR400m.
 
sammsky1 said:
ie: poch is not the tactical maestro you and others made him out to be. He’s been found out and doesn’t know what to do next.

I’m also very glad to note that it was José Mourinho who showed PL teams how to do this.
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What do you mean he's been found out? It's just a run of poor results that can happen to any team.

You think all of a sudden after years in the Premier League opposing managers have just now twigged?
 
Random Task said:
That's a very charitable suggestion, you're a real humanitarian.

Since they are a club in crisis, it stands to reason that the eventual transfer fees will be heavily reduced. In light of that fact it would be only fair to choose the 3 players at random, as in throwing their entire squad in to a hat - a top hat in this case - and drawing out 3 names. Completely and utterly random. I just did a trial run and here are the names that were drawn;

Dele Alli
Harry Kane
Eriksen (sorry don't know his first name!)

How's that suit ya, bro?
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Well, I don't really like to talk about it but you know I do what I can...

As for the names you drew out randomly from the hat, I think we will raise them well and give them the trophies their former retainers had always promised them.
 
Dobbs said:
What do you mean he's been found out? It's just a run of poor results that can happen to any team.

You think all of a sudden after years in the Premier League opposing managers have just now twigged?
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No it’s not simply poor form.

As @GlastonSpur noted, ever since Mourinho beat Spurs but sitting back to nullify their attacking threat and bypass midfield with targeted hoof ball, other teams have followed suit, resulting in Spurs worst run of form for past 2.5 seasons.

And Poch has so been unable to provide a different approach. We’ll see over next games if he is capable, but right now, he is in serious danger of losing his top 4 status, let alone come close to winning anything.
 
sammsky1 said:
No it’s not simply poor form.

As @GlastonSpur noted, ever since Mourinho beat Spurs but sitting back to nullify their attacking threat and bypass midfield with targeted hoof ball, other teams have followed suit, resulting in Spurs worst run of form for past 2.5 seasons.

And Poch has so been unable to provide a different approach. We’ll see over next games if he is capable, but right now, he is in serious danger of losing his top 4 status, let alone come close to winning anything.
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If it's so simple makes you wonder why it has taken so long for teams to cop onto it....

Do you think when Spurs were rolling over sides last season it was because all the teams tried to go toe-to-toe?

I mean PL bosses are paid handsomely to come with solutions. It would have been serious oversight and negligence on their part.

Much more likely that Spurs' poor form is due to their own dip in standards. Namely the intensity and quick passing. Conceding first in matches. Not clinical. Injuries don't help but everyone has injuries.

Find this found out lark a load of bollocks.
 
sammsky1 said:
No it’s not simply poor form.

As @GlastonSpur noted, ever since Mourinho beat Spurs but sitting back to nullify their attacking threat and bypass midfield with targeted hoof ball, other teams have followed suit, resulting in Spurs worst run of form for past 2.5 seasons.

And Poch has so been unable to provide a different approach. We’ll see over next games if he is capable, but right now, he is in serious danger of losing his top 4 status, let alone come close to winning anything.
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So if currently being 6th = Poch being found out I'm assuming us finishing 6th means Mourinho has been found out?
 
They are another Keegan's Newcastle. Charming, entertaining but win nothing in the end.

I dont think Pochettino handled contract situations very well this season. He seems like indecisive in Rose and Alderweireld cases. Also telling publicly about Dier's lack of commitment is not a wise choice in term of management. All these things have probably caused some cracks in their changing room
 
Scroto Baggins said:
Sure he has done well putting a young team together for Spurs, and they play very good football, I admire what he has done and the way Spurs play. But he has never won anything, not at Southampton not at Spurs, not at Espanyol as far as I can recall. His away record is 1 win in 16 games against the other top 6 sides in the PL with his aggressive style of football. This doesnt scream big club pedigree to me. Maybe it's just me but I will take a Jose 'boring' draw away from home vs an attractive aggressive pressing game loss.

And bringing up young academy players into the first team is not the same as managing a big club full of superstars. I think Spurs is about his level for now, if Spurs go on to win a few trophies then we can start talking manager of Real, PSG, etc.
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Apologies for the late reply, have been away from the board for a while.

I have to say, I actually agree with large parts of this.

I love Poch, I think he's the best manager we've had in quite a while (well, literally decades tbh). He's done so much in the time he's with us, to change the squad and its mentality, to push us higher in the league, compete with clubs with much greater resources in a restrictive financial environment while we try to bring all of our facilities up to scratch with the top European clubs. I have overwhelmingly positive things to say about Poch.

However, I do agree with the comment about moving on. I've seen quite a few comments (and heard a few in conversation) about how Poch will jump at the first opportunity to PSG/ Real/ Barcelona/ Bayern/ Milan etc etc. I don't quite agree.

Firstly, I actually do think Poch buys into the stuff he is talking about. When he's talking about wanting to stay here and build a legacy, stay for 10 years, be our own Ferguson etc, I think he genuinely believes that. Whether he follows through with that or not, I don't know. But I do think he genuinely believes that.

The second point is very similar to what you've said. He so far hasn't won anything. Not only that but he works with a very different type of player at Spurs. He prioritises team chemistry and players who toe the line. He threw out a whole bunch of players in his first season who didn't buy fully into the project he wanted to set up. He likes youth players because he can mould them into the image he wants. We don't have a Neymar here, an Ibrahimovic, a Ronaldo, Ramos, Messi etc. What happens when Neymar tells him he doesn't want to track back like he said? Or that he doesn't want to play x match? What happens when Ibrahimovic asks him what he's won because he doesn't like his instruction? He can't throw out players like these from the club.

Not to mention that I don't see how he fits with Real, Barca or PSG for that matter at all. Bayern or Man Utd in the long run are the ones that worry me.


As for the recent run, very disappointing to be honest. Other than a run in Poch's first season where it was all going a bit wrong, probably the worst run of his reign here so far. Made slightly more worrying by the fact there are a few genuine shockers of performance in there (Watford, Swansea etc).

However, despite the short term views of a lot of modern fans now, not quite time to panic just yet (imo anyway). Despite going on a run that could barely be worse, we're still only 4 points off 4th place. We've also had quite a few good performances during that time. I don't think we should have come away from Leicester with less than 3 points tbh, some of the chances we missed were insane. And perhaps most importantly, in his 4 seasons at Spurs, after 15 league games, we've had 21, 26, 27 and 25 points (GD -3, 13, 13, 10). Certainly not much cause to be happy currently but also not quite time to go into a full blown panic just yet.

We've been hit particularly badly by injuries this season and am wondering when it will stop. A lot of last season's starting 11 have been injured at some point. Wanyama especially has been a big (and mystifying) loss.
 
Dobbs said:
So if currently being 6th = Poch being found out I'm assuming us finishing 6th means Mourinho has been found out?
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Mourinho won 2 trophies during the season he finished 6th.
 
sammsky1 said:
No it’s not simply poor form.

As @GlastonSpur noted, ever since Mourinho beat Spurs but sitting back to nullify their attacking threat and bypass midfield with targeted hoof ball, other teams have followed suit, resulting in Spurs worst run of form for past 2.5 seasons.

And Poch has so been unable to provide a different approach. We’ll see over next games if he is capable, but right now, he is in serious danger of losing his top 4 status, let alone come close to winning anything.
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Teams were playing in exactly the same way last season, it didn't really matter. You think after 4 seasons with Poch, managers have only just picked up on the fact that it may be a good idea to sit back rather than come out and attack us?

Not to mention that during the recent poor run of form, teams have taken points off us by just sitting back and barely leaving their half (Swansea), taking an early lead and then time wasting from early on (West Brom), outplaying us (Arsenal) and going toe to toe with us (Watford). The silly collapse vs West Ham also had nothing to do with them going back into their half after we'd already gone 2-0 down. We ourselves have suffered a big dip in form. Teams haven't suddenly started playing in a new way and its a very lazy characterisation of the situation (one propagated by some Spurs fans as well actually).
 
Alderweireld could be out for 14 more weeks if there is a tear in his injured hamstring.

"I suffered a serious muscle tear, and there is a major risk of me suffering a relapse. If the muscle tears completely then I will need an operation, and 14 weeks of recovery time. So we are trying to find the right way of working the muscle as much as possible. I will have a scan in two weeks‘ time. We will see how much it has recovered, and how far we can push it.”
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He is saying if he rushes back and relapses, he risks tearing it completely and then needing an operation, which would take him out for 14 weeks. Not quite that he currently could be out for 14 weeks.

Though considering what has happened with Lamela, Rose and now Wanyama, I wouldn't be surprised tbh.
 
EyeInTheSky said:
That's what a lot of people were saying about Jose on here here despite all the Trophies he won and getting us in the CL.
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They were. Something about football moving on. Him not keeping up. They were wrong about Mourinhoand they are about Poch.

JB08 said:
Mourinho won 2 trophies during the season he finished 6th.
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Thought it was obvious I wasn't agreeing with that logic. Was trying to point out how wrong that poster is should he apply his thinking to our own manager.
 
africanspur said:
He is saying if he rushes back and relapses, he risks tearing it completely and then needing an operation, which would take him out for 14 weeks. Not quite that he currently could be out for 14 weeks.

Though considering what has happened with Lamela, Rose and now Wanyama, I wouldn't be surprised tbh.
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Yeah, read it wrong. Don't think player will be happy to take that risk in the world cup year.
 
roonster09 said:
Yeah, read it wrong. Don't think player will be happy to take that risk in the world cup year.
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No he wouldn't and rightly so. We shouldn't be willing to take the risk either, for our own good. Wrap him in cotton wool, get him one of those mobility scooters so he doesn't have to walk around and a Hodor style back basket to move him into and out of the scooter when he needs to get into bed etc and make sure he's not anywhere near the football pitch until his muscle is completely healed.
 
They are suffering the consequences behind the stadium move in the same way West Ham does. Look at their record at WHL from last year and this time around in Wembley...Normally, after the defeat or the run of poor games there would be WHL where they could gain some momentum going and get the positive vibes back within the team and amongst the fans. At the moment, no team in the PL is scared of taking the game to them at Wembley and Spurs team themselves look devoid of confidence while there, it's vicious cycle. For the team that used to rely this much on splendid home form to keep up with others it is a massive hit.
 
I think that just in the case of overly upping them after the RM and BVB matches, people are too quick to call for their downfall. Happy to see the mindless wanking over Poch cut in about half though, cannot deny that.
 
Spurs acquisition on paper looked good and I was impressed by their work too, but right now hasn't delivered.

Aurier has been erratic. Llorente has been useless. Sanchez has been good but again makes quite a few errors IMO.
 
KM said:
Spurs acquisition on paper looked good and I was impressed by their work too, but right now hasn't delivered.

Aurier has been erratic. Llorente has been useless. Sanchez has been good but again makes quite a few errors IMO.
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Sanchez is clearly going to be quality, to be fair. Can't expect a 21 year old CB to be flawless (Hello, Lindelof).

Poch has made some dire signings there though, none more so than £30m on Sissokho.
 
Also I think Poch now has a huge task on his hands in motivating the players in the PL. Effectively after two years of challenging and winning sod all (while playing for drastically lower money than they could get elsewhere), the team becomes disillusioned when they see City this year firing on all cilinders and realising they got no chance of winning the thing again.

Difficult to motivate yourself in the league context, and success that Walker (while earning shit loads more) is having so far after leaving them certainly doesn't help the atmosphere in that locker.

Having said all that they could still do well in the CL since everyone is up for that trophy.

I see them dropping off the cliff next year if they don't invest hugely, this season they might still finish respectably still purely as a matter of inertion, signs are there though.
 
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