GlastonSpur
Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2007
- Messages
- 17,716
- Supports
- Spurs
Gas! The German economy depends on Russian gas.
Public opinion was quite clear, the US statements were seen as advertisement for US LNG and the Russian offer was simply better. It wasn't ignored, it was actively not giving in to this.And for a long time they ignored USA that has been warning about Putin and Russian gas.
You think the larger war now reflects well on the political leaders in 2014? They (Obama, Merkel, Hollande et al.) are damned by their feeble inaction that emboldened Putin to now do this.
Well, and it frequently seems to be “our fault”, but who killed more folks over the last 20 years is probably a discussion for a different thread so it doesn’t derail this one (the Russo-Ukrainian War thread)
No I think the war in Ukraine was preventable. This assertion does not imply that the invasion of Ukraine was anyone's fault but Putin's - this was solely his decision. The deaths, destruction, humanitarian disaster fall on him. What I'm saying is we could have done more to prevent it.
NATO has no business in expanding to Ukraine and Georgia. Zero. it's not in USA's national interest to extend membership to countries that will always be under the Russian sphere of influence. And it's not in USA's national interest to provoke/escalate nuclear armageddon with Russia. Even if we see NATO as a purely defensive alliance, is it really inconceivable that Russia could see our vast military power as having offensive potential? NATO did take action against Gaddafi in Libya, is it so hard to understand Russian paranoia about NATO in Ukraine?
And the most stunning thing is that despite Blinken and Biden publicly saying that NATO membership is open, they privately told Zelenskyy that Ukraine won't be part of NATO:
"But everyone in the West told me that we do not have any chance of NATO or E.U. membership. NATO is saying that it is not going to admit Ukraine. That is true." Volodymyr Zelenskyy - Fareed Zakharia CNN Interview
So what the feck is the goal here - you goad the Russians with what they genuinely perceive as a threat (NATO membership for Ukraine), whilst privately telling the Ukrainians 'sorry you'll never be in NATO'. Is Zelenskyy being played here?
Ukrainian scarecrow…
NATO has no business in expanding to Ukraine and Georgia. Zero. it's not in USA's national interest to extend membership to countries that will always be under the Russian sphere of influence.
I think they’ve gone back and forth on this. In an effort to deescalate the West was putting it out there that they’d be willing to keep Ukraine out of NATO. But now that combat has gone this far, along with kidnapping of citizens to Russia and other war crimes, I imagine the benefits of adding them is more beneficial to the cause than dangling that carrot.Are there more sources about Zelenskyi being told that the Ukraine won't be a part of NATO? Because this is the official statement from the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest:
"NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations."
This is just you buying the Russian narrative. Talking about "spheres of influence" as if this is either a) the Cold War or b) a grand strategy video-game.
Jesus. Russkiy mir, indeed. At least you have finally come out with the fact that you see Ukraine’s and Georgia’s natural place as Russia’s playground.NATO has no business in expanding to Ukraine and Georgia. Zero. it's not in USA's national interest to extend membership to countries that will always be under the Russian sphere of influence. And it's not in USA's national interest to provoke/escalate nuclear armageddon with Russia. Even if we see NATO as a purely defensive alliance, is it really inconceivable that Russia could see our vast military power as having offensive potential? NATO did take action against Gaddafi in Libya, is it so hard to understand Russian paranoia about NATO in Ukraine?
And the most stunning thing is that despite Blinken and Biden publicly saying that NATO membership is open, they privately told Zelenskyy that Ukraine won't be part of NATO:
"But everyone in the West told me that we do not have any chance of NATO or E.U. membership. NATO is saying that it is not going to admit Ukraine. That is true." Volodymyr Zelenskyy - Fareed Zakharia CNN Interview
So what the feck is the goal here - you goad the Russians with what they genuinely perceive as a threat (NATO membership for Ukraine), whilst privately telling the Ukrainians 'sorry you'll never be in NATO'. Is Zelenskyy being played here?
Are there more sources about Zelenskyi being told that the Ukraine won't be a part of NATO? Because this is the official statement from the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest:
"NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations."
No I think the war in Ukraine was preventable. This assertion does not imply that the invasion of Ukraine was anyone's fault but Putin's - this was solely his decision. The deaths, destruction, humanitarian disaster fall on him. What I'm saying is we could have done more to prevent it.
NATO has no business in expanding to Ukraine and Georgia. Zero. it's not in USA's national interest to extend membership to countries that will always be under the Russian sphere of influence. And it's not in USA's national interest to provoke/escalate nuclear armageddon with Russia. Even if we see NATO as a purely defensive alliance, is it really inconceivable that Russia could see our vast military power as having offensive potential? NATO did take action against Gaddafi in Libya, is it so hard to understand Russian paranoia about NATO in Ukraine?
And the most stunning thing is that despite Blinken and Biden publicly saying that NATO membership is open, they privately told Zelenskyy that Ukraine won't be part of NATO:
"But everyone in the West told me that we do not have any chance of NATO or E.U. membership. NATO is saying that it is not going to admit Ukraine. That is true." Volodymyr Zelenskyy - Fareed Zakharia CNN Interview
So what the feck is the goal here - you goad the Russians with what they genuinely perceive as a threat (NATO membership for Ukraine), whilst privately telling the Ukrainians 'sorry you'll never be in NATO'. Is Zelenskyy being played here?
I know. That's a problem they created themselves. Against the advice of the Americans. Their foolishness is costing Ukrainian lives. The Germans created the problem and they have to pay the price and solve it now.
As Putin continues to take losses, he will be more incentiized to use chemical weapons (or similar) in a desperate attempt to get a win before his desired May 9 deadline
And?
What are you asking ?
I’m absolutely baffled by the point you were trying to make
Which part of saying Putin may get desperate and use chemical weapons if he doesn't have any tangible gains to report by May 9th (his self-imposed victory day) is baffling ?
He’s already started using said weapons, and was always going to. Even without that apparent deadline. So I’m not sure what relevance it has to say “Russia will keep attacking”, because no shit
It has been stated that it would be impossible to verify under current circumstances in Mariupol, so we will not get anything official on the alleged chemical attack there.I don't think that's been verified as yet has it?
Then Putin better be ready to see Ukraine striking back at more targets in Crimea, Donbas and Luhansk. The attack on Belgorod was already a warning on how the war can easily spill over because Russian air defenses are just shit. As for May 9, it's time to get horses and bayonets out or perhaps more women parading than usual.As Putin continues to take losses, he will be more incentiized to use chemical weapons (or similar) in a desperate attempt to get a win before his desired May 9 deadline
He’s already started using said weapons, and was always going to. Even without that apparent deadline. So I’m not sure what relevance it has to say “Russia will keep attacking”, because no shit
What a morning it has been for European politicians letting their masks slip:
Actually this is Ukraine's fault alone. Yes, they see Steinmeier as responsible for the close German-Russian relationship, but saying he isn't wanted in the country was a huge blunder. Invite him, maybe on the condition that he repeats in Kiyv what he has already said (that he sees that policy asa mistake now).
They should have used the opportunity to really make a point of Germany changing allegiances.
Instead they acted in line to their ambassador to Germany who single-handedly causes a lot of Germans to say "yes we should help them, despite their (un)diplomatic behaviour" and some even to outright say that we shouldn't give those ungrateful greedy bastards anything.
Diplomacy isn't Ukraine's strength, at least when dealing with Germany. Understandable due to our Russia relations, but nonetheless it isn't really motivating Germany to help.
Honestly I would be perfectly fine if we loaded a train with tanks for Ukraine and just put their ambassador into it to get rid of him.