"They are not protesters, they are terrorists."
As bad as the video is, the comments beneath are possibly as disturbing.
A people's Revolution
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
"They are not protesters, they are terrorists."
As bad as the video is, the comments beneath are possibly as disturbing.
It's tragic how little coverage the Bahrain protests are getting. All other protests are tragic but at least they have some degree of army support, the Bahrainis here are completely on their own.
What makes it worse is that many of these soldiers aren't native Bahrainis but rather foreigners brought in to dilute the Shia majority - no doubt a Saudi initiative.
I wish the best of luck to Bahrainis, as well as the brave Libyans
What makes it worse is that many of these soldiers aren't native Bahrainis but rather foreigners brought in to dilute the Shia majority - no doubt a Saudi initiative.
I wish the best of luck to Bahrainis, as well as the brave Libyans
Al Arabiya is reporting that a speech by Gaddafi is imminent!
There are 2 air force Migs that have landed in Malta , the 2 pilots said they was ordered to bomb there own people , not sure if it was Benghazi or Tripoli.
They did not want to and flew to Malta
this should be interesting , the appearance of his son the other night was not welcomed.
Can't see Gaddafi going anywhere.
While one appreciete the words of support coming from the North European countries, it would be better to learn from the past mistakes not to repeat them. Gheddafi had been oppressing his people for more then 4 decades. He's been threatening to send hordes of immigrants (over 1 million illegal immigrants) to Europe, forcing the South European countries (whose hands are tied with the Dublin treaty (which literally force a country to immigrants even if it does not have the resources and/or opportunities to integrate them) to an uncomfortable submission. No wonder why countries like Italy are finding it pretty hard to condemn his actions. If gheddafi wins then they'll have to face the music.
If we really want to show solidarity to the African people then we have to have a zero tolerance against dictatorship even to the point (in extreme cases) of taking military action against them. We must also invest in those countries to give them financial stability. Its a disgrace that countries like Somalia are still at war and yet no one has yet to take action as much as its a disgrace that the Southern European countries are overwhelmed with illegal immigrants and no one even care to accept its fair share of them to his own country. If we fail to do that, then one can't really be surprised if countries start making deals with dictatorships which contribute in solidifying their power on that same country.
If we really want to show solidarity to the African people then we have to have a zero tolerance against dictatorship even to the point (in extreme cases) of taking military action against them. We must also invest in those countries to give them financial stability. Its a disgrace that countries like Somalia are still at war and yet no one has yet to take action as much as its a disgrace that the Southern European countries are overwhelmed with illegal immigrants and no one even care to accept its fair share of them to his own country. If we fail to do that, then one can't really be surprised if countries start making deals with dictatorships which contribute in solidifying their power on that same country.
Guardian live blog:
does gaddafi still have part ownership in juve?
State tv in libya broadcasting some fecked up dancing show
Apparently the speech should be coming soon. Venezuela denies that Qaddafi is on his way there. I imagine Muammar and Hugo would have good fun together if that ends up happening.
I'd imagine Mubarak would be having fun with his mate Obama not so long in the future too, heck they could invite King Abdullah and Ben Ali and have a blast.
What's the rolling eyes for?
Well, that was convincing... Qaddafi with an umbrella in a car saying "I'm not in Venezuela, I am still here." Says something about dogs also.
Gadaffi's statement "I am in Tripoli, not in Venezula"
What the hell was that?
This is his Steve McClaren moment. He is done. Looked like a fecking idiot
Sorry matt, completely missed your post
Yours might have clarified that I wasn't just making stuff up. That video was very weird.
What was the part about dogs though? It's probably just a bad translation by CNN but didn't make any sense.
Here we go:
"I am satisfied, because I was speaking in front of the youth in the Green Square tonight, but the rain came praise to God it bears well. I want to clarify for them that I am in Tripoli not in Venezuela. Do not believe these channels they are dogs. Goodbye."
What was the part about dogs though? It's probably just a bad translation by CNN but didn't make any sense.
Here we go:
"I am satisfied, because I was speaking in front of the youth in the Green Square tonight, but the rain came praise to God it bears well. I want to clarify for them that I am in Tripoli not in Venezuela. Do not believe these channels they are dogs. Goodbye."
Why is the west not reacting? This is Genocide. Killing of people fighting for their basic human rights. The hypocricy of the western superpowers is truly shocking. If the same had happened in Iran, I think the US airplanes would have reached Tehran by now.
TBF, I don't think they would.
It is hard for the west...they can't just go and bomb a country...nation building hasn't been a great experiment in the recent past.
Also the west doesn't have a lot of leverage when it comes to Libya...what do they threaten them with? Deny them what?
The pushback from this has to come from factions in the Libyan armed forces, and obviously all the different tribes in that country.
That public statement from Gaddafi's son is hilarious
"The Zionists, Americans, Europeans are all ready to invade you and make you slaves. No bread, no freedom, think of your children!"
It's not genocide. It's an attempt at coercion by the government but not a serious effort to destroy whole groups of people. The attacks could become genocide, but at the moment I wouldn't say that's an accurate description. Not really trying to be pedantic... There's also only one superpower. that was pedantic.
If the US became involved in either, it would strengthen the position of Qaddafi and the Guardian Council. They've been talking about how it's all down to foreign involvement and outside agents fomenting revolt. Anything the US does to intervene would be would give credence to those claims. It's the same throughout the Middle East. In Iran, if the President had come out strongly supporting Moussavi and the protestors, they would have been painted as stooges and puppets of the West. Qaddafi could already have a perfect piece of "evidence" of foreign meddling if he looked into history. Saying that the two defected pilots are American plants(expats). It was a big part of the Bay of Pigs Invasion that proved to be a huge flaw when it ended up making news. The US does something and that gets pulled out as proof that it's all an American plot to destabilize dear Muammar.
Any government resulting from any form of US intervention would be tarred as illegitimate. People have to win their freedom. It can't be given to them by someone else. In a country with divisions like Libya, expelling Qaddafi would help to bring them together and hopefully prevent the outbreak of civil war.
People complain when we play "world police" and when we don't.
It's not genocide. It's an attempt at coercion by the government but not a serious effort to destroy whole groups of people. The attacks could become genocide, but at the moment I wouldn't say that's an accurate description. Not really trying to be pedantic... There's also only one superpower. that was pedantic.
If the US became involved in either, it would strengthen the position of Qaddafi and the Guardian Council. They've been talking about how it's all down to foreign involvement and outside agents fomenting revolt. Anything the US does to intervene would be would give credence to those claims. It's the same throughout the Middle East. In Iran, if the President had come out strongly supporting Moussavi and the protestors, they would have been painted as stooges and puppets of the West. Qaddafi could already have a perfect piece of "evidence" of foreign meddling if he looked into history. Saying that the two defected pilots are American plants(expats). It was a big part of the Bay of Pigs Invasion that proved to be a huge flaw when it ended up making news. The US does something and that gets pulled out as proof that it's all an American plot to destabilize dear Muammar.
Any government resulting from any form of US intervention would be tarred as illegitimate. People have to win their freedom. It can't be given to them by someone else. In a country with divisions like Libya, expelling Qaddafi would help to bring them together and hopefully prevent the outbreak of civil war.
People complain when we play "world police" and when we don't.
The US isn't involved because Libya doesn't have oil.......hmmmmmmm wait a minute.
Iran has had insurrection for years yet we have stood by, the last thing any revolution needs is for the authorities to clamp down on them because they are at war.
Chavez is a dear friend of Assad and Ahmedinejad, and therefore cherished by RK.
It's tragic how little coverage the Bahrain protests are getting. All other protests are tragic but at least they have some degree of army support, the Bahrainis here are completely on their own.
What makes it worse is that many of these soldiers aren't native Bahrainis but rather foreigners brought in to dilute the Shia majority - no doubt a Saudi initiative.
I wish the best of luck to Bahrainis, as well as the brave Libyans
The situation is truly terrible right now in Bahrain. Their government have shown that they won't hesitate even for a minute to attack and massacre their people, without any degree of influential media coverage to expose them. Not to mention that at the faintest sign of the opposition gaining momentum in Bahrain, the Saudis will certainly send wahabi thugs if not army forces to crush the opposition.
It's really sad and I personally see no light whatsoever at the end of the tunnel for the Bahrainis.
Live speech by Cameron at the National Assembly in Kuweit at the moment. Threatening Iran and talking about British immigration/integration problems.
The silence of the West is deafening, and is rightly condemned on here.
However, I have heard very little from the UN which makes me wonder whether this has anything to do with the fact that the organization is littered with dozens of dictatorships getting the same representation as democracies. I'd think there is a substantial number of countries not interested in supporting the democrartic reforms so many Arabs are calling for, and those are not necessarily Zionist or Western.
However, I have heard very little from the UN which makes me wonder whether this has anything to do with the fact that the organization is littered with dozens of dictatorships getting the same representation as democracies. I'd think there is a substantial number of countries not interested in supporting the democrartic reforms so many Arabs are calling for, and those are not necessarily Zionist or Western.
If you'd been following this thread you'd see that I was supportive of the protests in Iran and Syria, but nice try.
And for the record my respect for Chavez is due to his attempts at tackling poverty, implementing social democracy and opposing imperialism, but whatever works for you.
On the topic, brilliant (as always) article by N. Ferguson:
Niall Ferguson - WANTED: A Grand Strategy for America
You did stop short of demanding US intervention in Iran though, didn't you?
Has the UN ever been allowed to be effective when it comes to international diplomacy?
It is great in terms of peacekeeping, humanitarian activities, health/education initiatives...but doesn't have too many feathers in its cap with regards to international diplomacy/conflicts.
The Permanent members of the SC has vetoed just about anything and everything, even simple resolutions stating outrage at events(and this isn't about the US and Israel, but also the Chinese and Russians for issues of their self interest also).
The role of the Permanent Members since it's inception barring a few instances, has almost always been self serving and disgusting to say the least.
But you do have a point, while the Secretary General has verbally expressed his outrage without really mincing his words...that is all it has been, words. The non-permanent 10 members are hopeless....
What about mass demonstrations in Europe? Are the people of London and Madrid out on the streets already? With them caring so much for human rights, there must be some kind of organized protest considering the ongoing massacres.
Umbrella to give another televised speech soon ..so says Libyan state TV
As I said before what do you want us to do? What did we do when the USSR and Eastern Europe were collapsing? Absolutely nothing as we knew our involvement would complicate the situation and give Moscow the impetus to be stronger in putting rebellion down.
meanwhile Cameron is in the Mid' East with his buddies from the arms industries ...talking about freedom.
Cameron attacked for Egypt visit with defence sales team in tow - UK Politics, UK - The Independent
Cameron attacked for Egypt visit with defence sales team in tow - UK Politics, UK - The Independent
I haven't demanded US intervention anywhere in the ME, in fact I've only demanded the opposite - stop meddling and let us be!
London used up all its sympathy points protesting against your evil regime. They can't feel for everyone all of the time, you know. Their compassion reserves are near empty at the moment.
This is a very interesting point though, there was an awful lot of criticism of western policy after the Russian Federation was founded. It was believed that if we pumped money into it, sent academics and lecturers by the thousands British council style and gave political support that we could have created a western ally or even a member of the west itself. This is what Boris Yeltsin and the Russian elite expected but when no such assistance came and when the IMF and World Bank were distant they felt thoroughly betrayed and let down, their economy and society completely crumbled and now they have emerged as a pseudo-authoritarian state with their strongest and warmest political ties to China.
I was under the impression that you were critical of the Yank administration for not expressing unequivocal support of the Egyptian revolution.