Barcelona - a lot of moaning about them and some praise

evra said:
As I've said before this was one game against their fiercest rivals, of course it got dirty. In general when I watch Barca games any play acting or cheating is massively overshadowed by their scintillating football.
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Maybe that is the case, but there is no doubt they're play-acting and harassment is beyond a joke

A line needs to be drawn, it's upto Guardiola to put a stop to it if UEFA aren't going to act, because otherwise it shames his marvellous football club, it's an embrassment to everything Barcelona allegedly stands for
 
evra said:
As I've said before this was one game against their fiercest rivals, of course it got dirty. In general when I watch Barca games any play acting or cheating is massively overshadowed by their scintillating football.
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What about someone like me who doesn't find their football 'scintillating'? I think their football is good by general standards but I don't find the brand of football to my liking. For me it DOESN'T overshadow their cheating. In fact it's the other way round.

And forget that, why should the rest of us ignore the cheating? There is no correlation between how good football is and cheating. The latter should be condemned whether it's Stoke doing it or United/Barca doing it.

If anything it's clear that your judgement is clouded and not that of the rest of the posters.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
What about someone like me who doesn't find their football 'scintillating'? I think their football is good by general standards but I don't find the brand of football to my liking. For me it DOESN'T overshadow their cheating. In fact it's the other way round.
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Honestly, I can't see where you're coming from. Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I'm struggling to believe we are watching the same side.
 
evra said:
Honestly, I can't see where you're coming from. Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I'm struggling to believe we are watching the same side.
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Stuff like Messi's goal was beautiful

But the other stuff where they pass it around, albeit technically amazing and for anyone who has played you have no choice but to appreciate it, but don't tell me that watching one team pass it around in front of two banks of four is entertaining/beautfiul to watch

I suspect that is his point
 
evra said:
Honestly, I can't see where you're coming from. Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I'm struggling to believe we are watching the same side.
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I get bored when watching Barcelona playing piggy in the middle every other game interspersed with some Messi brilliance.
 
evra said:
Honestly, I can't see where you're coming from. Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I'm struggling to believe we are watching the same side.
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You don't believe that though. You keep pinning things down to jealousy.

What can I say? I think at their best they can be great (like loads of teams). I think generally they play good football. But this whole notion that when they win 'football wins' is a joke. I prefer watching Spurs more because I get to see end to end football with a sense of urgency, which is how I like the game being played. The recent game between Arsenal and Spurs was brilliant to watch. End to end, physical, hard fought, lots of technically gifted players and very little fannying about. I don't see why one can't understand football fans liking football, which isn't 'pass, pass, pass, pass..' but still very classy, as their preference. Also there is a difference between liking/ being entertained by something and knowing it takes a lot of skill.

I can see why others like their football as the best so I don't understand why it isn't the other way around for some.

Also, I still don't know what their football has to do with cheating. Cheating is wrong no matter who does it. Whether it's Barca or Stoke, it is wrong. When Nani does it, it's wrong. When a whole team do it, it's very very very wrong/.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
You don't believe that though. You keep pinning things down to jealousy.

What can I say? I think at their best they can be great (like loads of teams). I think generally they play good football. But this whole notion that when they win 'football wins' is a joke. I prefer watching Spurs more because I get to see end to end football with a sense of urgency, which is how I like the game being played. The recent game between Arsenal and Spurs was brilliant to watch. End to end, physical, hard fought, lots of technically gifted players and very little fannying about. I don't see why one can't understand football fans liking football, which isn't 'pass, pass, pass, pass..' but still very classy, as their preference. Also there is a difference between liking/ being entertained by something and knowing it takes a lot of skill.

I can see why others like their football as the best so I don't understand why it isn't the other way around for some.

Also, I still don't know what their football has to do with cheating. Cheating is wrong no matter who does it. Whether it's Barca or Stoke, it is wrong. When Nani does it, it's wrong. When a whole team do it, it's very very very wrong/.
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You would prefer to watch Spurs than Barcelona? Barcelona play total football when they are on song (which is pretty often) I don't know how anyone could dismiss them as a team that "generally plays good football". As for the cheating element they don't cheat any more than most teams in Spain, it doesn't significantly detract from all the terrific qualities that Barca embody.
 
2wdr8f4.jpg
:lol::lol:
 
evra said:
You would prefer to watch Spurs than Barcelona? Barcelona play total football when they are on song (which is pretty often) I don't know how anyone could dismiss them as a team that "generally plays good football". As for the cheating element they don't cheat any more than most teams in Spain, it doesn't significantly detract from all the terrific qualities that Barca embody.
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Of course. Spurs play fun football matches that are much more entraining. It's much better than watching a match where one team has the ball for 7 out of 10 minutes and spends much of that time aimlessly passing the ball about.

They play good football, like MANY clubs. What they do, others can't. But that has no correlation with how much it appeals to me. I prefer watching many other teams to Barcelona. Sadly, Barca fanatics can't seem to understand why. I find THAT bloody strange to be honest.

And they cheat lots. I'm not concerned with any 'general standard' that is prevalent in Spain. Both Madrid and Barca behave on the pitch in a way that I really dislike. It detracts from their glory, of course it does, as is the case with cheaters in all walks of life.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Of course. Spurs play fun football matches that are much more entraining. It's much better than watching a match where one team has the ball for 7 out of 10 minutes and spends much of that time aimlessly passing the ball about.

They play good football, like MANY clubs. What they do, others can't. But that has no correlation with how much it appeals to me. I prefer watching many other teams to Barcelona. Sadly, Barca fanatics can't seem to understand why. I find THAT bloody strange to be honest.

And they cheat lots. I'm not concerned with any 'general standard' that is prevalent in Spain. Both Madrid and Barca behave on the pitch in a way that I really dislike. It detracts from their glory, of course it does, as is the case with cheaters in all walks of life.
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We'll have to agree to disagree mate, because I don't really get as riled as some people over a bit of gamesmanship here and there. This Barca team are (not unrealistically) being talked up as one of the greatest sides ever, I'm just enjoying watching them play.
 
evra said:
We'll have to agree to disagree mate, because I don't really get as riled as some people over a bit of gamesmanship here and there. This Barca team are (not unrealistically) being talked up as one of the greatest sides ever, I'm just enjoying watching them play.
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Well that's good for you, and I have no problem with others taking enjoyment out of that. But if someone else doesn't enjoy something you do, there isn't any reason to put odd reasons to it. It's okay for you to have a different opinion, same should apply for me.
 
Barca's football is personal preference..like marmite, you either love it or you hate it. I personally like the idea behind their football, domination using the ball. We try to do it at Arsenal but we're nowhere near as good as them at it, especially when it comes to using wall passes and third man runs in and around the penalty area. It's about as close to footballing perfection as you can get, purely because of the technical mastery and intelligence on show.

However, it's only my opinion..people find it boring and tedious, and that's there opinion. There is no right or wrong here, it's all preference.
 
TheHorse'sMouth said:
Barca's football is personal preference..like marmite, you either love it or you hate it. I personally like the idea behind their football, domination using the ball. We try to do it at Arsenal but we're nowhere near as good as them at it, especially when it comes to using wall passes and third man runs in and around the penalty area. It's about as close to footballing perfection as you can get, purely because of the technical mastery and intelligence on show.

However, it's only my opinion..people find it boring and tedious, and that's there opinion. There is no right or wrong here, it's all preference.
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Agree completely. There is no right or wrong in these things. It is wrong to condemn someone for having an opinion on this, though.
 
I admire their football. I hate their cynical, odious cheating.
 
Busquets is an embarassment. I bet he hit the floor writhing in agony when his mum spat on a hankie to clean his face as a kid.
 
evra said:
because I don't really get as riled as some people over a bit of gamesmanship here and there.
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It's a lot more than a "bit of gamesmanship here and there" though isn't it, a bit of gamesmanship is Nani in our team, they have more or less a whole team doing it at times
 
EdWeatherall said:
It's a lot more than a "bit of gamesmanship here and there" though isn't it, a bit of gamesmanship is Nani in our team, they have more or less a whole team doing it at times
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We surround and intimidate the referee, we have players who dive, we have players who make cynical fouls, we have players who cheat (eg Vidic today). It's part of the game, in an ideal world it wouldn't be but the Premier League isn't full of Bobby Moores any more.

If you don't find Barca's style of football entertaining then you're in a minority (which is fine I suppose) but let's not pretend Barca are significantly worse than most sides when it comes to the "dark side" of the game. This idea that they are a "disgusting football team" is what irked me, they are a fantastic football team.
 
Boss said:
This pretty much sums it up. Class football, disgusting gamesmanship.

Most people who don't appreciate their actual football seem to have a bizarre loyalty with Real/Ronaldo.
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I don't do and I couldnt give two shits about Ronaldo and Real. You are once again wrong Boss.
 
evra said:
We surround and intimidate the referee, we have players who dive, we have players who make cynical fouls, we have players who cheat (eg Vidic today). It's part of the game, in an ideal world it wouldn't be but the Premier League isn't full of Bobby Moores any more.

If you don't find Barca's style of football entertaining then you're in a minority (which is fine I suppose) but let's not pretend Barca are significantly worse than most sides when it comes to the "dark side" of the game. This idea that they are a "disgusting football team" is what irked me, they are a fantastic football team.
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I bet you it's not that much of a minority

They're football is amazing, so technically outstanding, it's impossible if you understand the game to not appreciate it, but enjoyment and appreciation are two very different things. I for one, don't enjoy watching Barcelona as much as I would a 90MPH PL match where the quality is low but the pace and intensity is high. I don't enjoy seeing one side keep the ball for huge patches of the match with the other team having 9/10 players behind the ball trying to stop them.

I'd much rather our attacking style of play than Barca's, but that's a matter of preference which is somewhat irrelevant to the discussion.


And yes, we have players who dive and yes, and we're not on their level in surrounding the referee, if you think we are, then I suggest you have a look at the two games again, today's and Wednesday's and see what you think. They are by far the worst culprits out there, and as I say it is quite substantially more than a bit of gamesmanship

First and foremost, Barcelona are a fantastic club, a fantastic football team who play fantastic football, but their actions shame them, shame Guardiola and are a disgrace, if you truly can't see the difference between Barcelona and isolated players within a team, then I shall bid this conversational farewell
 
EdWeatherall said:
I bet you it's not that much of a minority

They're football is amazing, so technically outstanding, it's impossible if you understand the game to not appreciate it, but enjoyment and appreciation are two very different things. I for one, don't enjoy watching Barcelona as much as I would a 90MPH PL match where the quality is low but the pace and intensity is high. I don't enjoy seeing one side keep the ball for huge patches of the match with the other team having 9/10 players behind the ball trying to stop them.

I'd much rather our attacking style of play than Barca's, but that's a matter of preference which is somewhat irrelevant to the discussion.


And yes, we have players who dive and yes, and we're not on their level in surrounding the referee, if you think we are, then I suggest you have a look at the two games again, today's and Wednesday's and see what you think. They are by far the worst culprits out there, and as I say it is quite substantially more than a bit of gamesmanship

First and foremost, Barcelona are a fantastic club, a fantastic football team who play fantastic football, but their actions shame them, shame Guardiola and are a disgrace, if you truly can't see the difference between Barcelona and isolated players within a team, then I shall bid this conversational farewell
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Agree with every word of that.
 
Boss said:
You only get offended if you are one to be fair.
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And again ignoring that I constantly bash Ronaldo for his personal ambitions and leaving United for self-gain and don't give a toss for his Real career or watch Real play.

Ah, but some much easier to just toss baseless accusations during arguments. It's the bossman way.
 
MrMarcello said:
And again ignoring that I constantly bash Ronaldo for his personal ambitions and leaving United for self-gain and don't give a toss for his Real career or watch Real play.

Ah, but some much easier to just toss baseless accusations during arguments. It's the bossman way.
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Ok, that's your story and I believe you.
 
Boss said:
I did say most people, not all.


Struck a nerve?
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Yup. This Ronaldo-fanboi thingy is actually very annoying. Anyone who doesnt rate Barcelona is automatically a Real fanboi eh?

And most people is as wrong as all.
I dislike Barcelona with passion as much as I dislike Real Madrid.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
He pretty much never has an argument to put across.
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When Pogue asked you why you find Messi boring how come you never responded?



You prefer a million stepovers in a nano second?

and you never responded when I asked you why you call others obssessed with Laliga despite yourself dominating almost all laliga related threads with your posts.

Or when you called Iniesta the best player in the world based on his performance at stamford Bridge.

I gave a youtube vid of that performance and you spent the rest of the thread ignoring me, with Stretch even calling you out on it.

Yet I never have an argument?

hehe

EDIT- Once again he has no argument.
 
EdWeatherall said:
And yes, we have players who dive and yes, and we're not on their level in surrounding the referee, if you think we are, then I suggest you have a look at the two games again, today's and Wednesday's and see what you think. They are by far the worst culprits out there, and as I say it is quite substantially more than a bit of gamesmanship
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That's not fair at all. If you're only judging them on games against their despised rivals then I can see how you might come to that conclusion, in general I don't see them as significantly worse than most sides in Europe and particularly Spain. Barca have a few cynical players in their team but so do all the good sides.

You're applying double standards to Barca. Ask someone who doesn't support utd and they will talk about Rooney, Nani, Berbatov and "Cheateritto" diving. They will talk about Fletcher's cynical fouling and tendency to stick like glue to referees. They will point to Vidic being a pretty dirty player, Rafael and Scholes for making reckless challenges, Rooney for swearing and intimidating referees, our tendency to surround referees when decisions go against us. That's just off the top of my head, have a pint with any neutral and they will talk about the negative side of our team all night.
 
evra said:
That's not fair at all. If you're only judging them on games against their despised rivals then I can see how you might come to that conclusion, in general I don't see them as significantly worse than most sides in Europe and particularly Spain. Barca have a few cynical players in their team but so do all the good sides.
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I haven't see another side in Europe engage in face clutching and referee intimidation to the same degree. That's not to say it doesn't happen elsewhere. Just that Barca are the worst.

evra said:
You're applying double standards to Barca.
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Is anyone condoning or defending cheating on the scale of Barca's. If so, that would be double standards.

evra said:
Ask someone who doesn't support utd and they will talk about Rooney, Nani, Berbatov and "Cheateritto" diving. They will talk about Fletcher's cynical fouling and tendency to stick like glue to referees. They will point to Vidic being a pretty dirty player, Rafael and Scholes for making reckless challenges, Rooney for swearing and intimidating referees, our tendency to surround referees when decisions go against us. That's just off the top of my head, have a pint with any neutral and they will talk about the negative side of our team all night.
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Was this neutral Mike Summerbee?
 
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