Berbatov | Fulham player

Retarded posts are just fine, god knows I still chuckle at the thought of that Jamie Redknapp thread or that flowchart thread (Good times, eh:lol:), but come on Nick, Berbatov's transfer fee, 3 years down the line? Surely we can call each other retarded on something a bit more relevant than that.

There was a post in the transfer forum saying Nani was only voted player's POTY because they felt he needed a confidence boost, not because they thought he was the best. That was pretty retarded and more current, let's go point and laugh at that :)
 
edit for your edit: well then you'd be stupid. You know what he's capable of and what to expect of him from having watching him play, why would you suddenly expect him to become twice as good over night just because transfer fees are inflated beyond your own perceived value?

Not at all. If Fergie and the United scouts thinks he is worth £40m, then clearly they: a) think a lot more of him than I do; and/or b) think he can improve vastly in a red shirt; and/or c) will compliment the way we play far more than what we currently have.

I therefore would trust Fergie in that we are getting a player that is better than my current opinion of him. I think bar a couple of moments of brilliance Owen has done nothing really of note in a red shirt, but the majority are happy to see him sign an extension. I put it to you that if he was a big money signing fans would be less sympathetic to his contributions, or lack thereof.

/edit: Just to clarify I personally don't care about his transfer fee at all, it's not my money being spent. I'm more talking in general about the cost of a player vs what the fans/media/management would and do expect of them.
 
There was a post in the transfer forum saying Nani was only voted player's POTY because they felt he needed a confidence boost, not because they thought he was the best. That was pretty retarded and more current, let's go point and laugh at that :)

I'll do you one better, there's one mug who wants to sell him or wait, I'm actually pretty sure, I've seen quite a few people wanting us to sell him.
 
Not at all. If Fergie and the United scouts thinks he is worth £40m, then clearly they: a) think a lot more of him than I do; and/or b) think he can improve vastly in a red shirt; and/or c) will compliment the way we play far more than what we currently have.

I therefore would trust Fergie in that we are getting a player that is better than my current opinion of him. I think bar a couple of moments of brilliance Owen has done nothing really of note in a red shirt, but the majority are happy to see him sign an extension. I put it to you that if he was a big money signing fans would be less sympathetic to his contributions, or lack thereof.

/edit: Just to clarify I personally don't care about his transfer fee at all, it's not my money being spent. I'm more talking in general about the cost of a player vs what the fans/media/management would and do expect of them.


In your hypothetical Modric example 'a', you say that SAF already sees him as worthy of the £40m when you don't, so you'd accept that SAF knew better, so why would you then expect his performance levels to increase? If SAF already thinks he's worth £40m, and then he improves to the point where you think he's gone from worth £20m to £40m, then in SAF's eyes he'd now be worth £80m!

Bah, Walker is right, this is very much old hat, I'm out of this debate.
 
I'll do you one better, there's one mug who wants to sell him or wait, I'm actually pretty sure, I've seen quite a few people wanting us to sell him.

Same guy wants to sell him.... for £20m! That'd mean he'd be 20% less good than Lescott!
 
Not at all. If Fergie and the United scouts thinks he is worth £40m, then clearly they: a) think a lot more of him than I do; and/or b) think he can improve vastly in a red shirt; and/or c) will compliment the way we play far more than what we currently have.

I therefore would trust Fergie in that we are getting a player that is better than my current opinion of him. I think bar a couple of moments of brilliance Owen has done nothing really of note in a red shirt, but the majority are happy to see him sign an extension. I put it to you that if he was a big money signing fans would be less sympathetic to his contributions, or lack thereof.

/edit: Just to clarify I personally don't care about his transfer fee at all, it's not my money being spent. I'm more talking in general about the cost of a player vs what the fans/media/management would and do expect of them.

You're right in saying that a lot of fans/media perceive a transfer based upon its fee, clearly shown by this thread itself, but then thats what Nick is trying to say is that, thats a flawed perception, sometimes you have to shell out that extra bit looking at a few other things related to that transfer other than performances which themselves havent been none too shabby.
 
SAF dropped his record signing for the CL final, are you amazed that he still has reservations?

What is this obsession with "record signing"? SAF dropped a striker for a form partnership, and an impact sub (something, as much as I love him, Berbatov is clearly not). The amount he cost no longer has anything to do with whether or not Berbatov is a useful player to have in the squad/team. If we were considering re-signing him, or were discussing transfer successes - great. But we're not, we're discussing whether or not he performs a valuable role for Utd. This season he scored more league goals than any other PL player (bar Tevez), including a hat-trick against Liverpool - and yet he still get's beaten with this "record signing" nonsense. The money is gone, get over it. We have a striker, who wants to stay, but clearly isn't first choice - the question is now is he useful to the team, or should be moved on? Not, how much should we have bought him for in the first place.

And yes, whether Berbatov was dropped for the final or not, I'm still amazed so many fans have such big reservations over him - and sadly all I can assume, given his achievements this season, is that it's still down to his lack of chest beating, ball chasing, aggression of a Rooney style player.
 
In your hypothetical Modric example 'a', you say that SAF already sees him as worthy of the £40m when you don't, so you'd accept that SAF knew better, so why would you then expect his performance levels to increase? If SAF already thinks he's worth £40m, and then he improves to the point where you think he's gone from worth £20m to £40m, then in SAF's eyes he'd now be worth £80m!

Bah, Walker is right, this is very much old hat, I'm out of this debate.

I would bow to Fergie's (far) superior knowledge of football. He would in this theoretical scenario think Modric would be worth £40m to our team. Whether this is because Fergie thinks he would improve his current level at our team, or whether he has seen something in the lad that I haven't, or whether he thinks his current set of attributes in a different team setup would bring out much more in him...

Basically I would trust Fergie that we are getting the right talent for the right money, as I always have.

I'm also not saying talent/potential talent is the only thing value is based on (just the main thing): obviously how long is left on ones contract and age etc have an effect.
 
Berbatov is an amazing player and has had a great season.

But he just doesn't suit us and I really feel sorry for him.

Look at how United play - fast paced, counter attacking football with emphasis on wing play.

Does Berbatov excel at any of these? No.

Berbatov has done well against opposition that primarily sit back and defend. These tactics against us are becoming few and far between.

Scouting reports now will tell you that to beat United you must press everywhere on the pitch and get in our faces. Liverpool, Barca, Arsenal at the Emerites this season, Everton, Villa all know this.

Berbatov goes missing when teams press us all over the place. This is why Fergie doesn't trust Berbatov in big games.

This is my last post on Berbatov.

I will be happy if he stays as there is no third choice striker out there who has as much talent as Berbatov.

But I can also see both parties moving on. Welbeck has the attributes to really do well for us. Rooney is fantastic and totally suits the way we play. Hernendez, although still raw in some areas and a tad predictable, also suits us and has a bright and long future ahead.

I don't want this to sound condescening or that I'm belittling Berbatov but I think Berbatov would dominate Italy and would be more appreciated because he can do somethings on the pitch that are just jaw-dropping.

But these things don't necessarily work in the PL or the CL.
 
When you're right Chief, you're right.

And the world stands back amazed at what is in it.
 
Some people will never be satisfied with anything Berbatov does. I mean even after finishing as the league's top scorer they still claim he doesn't suit us, SAF doesn't trust him and he is shit. It's incredible.

It's a pride thing. They're blaming him for Tevez' departure, therefore nothing he ever does will ever be good enough.
 
That's a bit simplistic. I'm not sure they've all got the same reasons. It's fecking odd though.

We just won our 19th league title, despite Berbatov basically having to carry Rooney for the entire first half of the season, going on to win the golden boot. Who would have predicted that, this time last year?!

If that's still not enough to win round all the critics it says more about them than it does about him.
 
That's a bit simplistic. I'm not sure they've all got the same reasons. It's fecking odd though. We just won our 19th league title, despite Berbatov basically carrying Rooney for the entire first half of the season, going on to win the golden boot. If that's not enough to win round all the critics it says more about them than it does about him.

I think it's true for many of them. The vast majority of people I come across who dislike/hate Berbatov are Tevez-fans.
 
Berbatov is an amazing player and has had a great season.

But he just doesn't suit us and I really feel sorry for him.

Look at how United play - fast paced, counter attacking football with emphasis on wing play.

Does Berbatov excel at any of these? No.

Begs the question, why did SAF sign him then?
 
That's a bit simplistic. I'm not sure they've all got the same reasons. It's fecking odd though.

We just won our 19th league title, despite Berbatov basically having to carry Rooney for the entire first half of the season, going on to win the golden boot. Who would have predicted that, this time last year?!

If that's still not enough to win round all the critics it says more about them than it does about him.

Sorry Pogue but until he's one of the first names on the teamsheet at the business end of the season I'll be disappointed, the fact is he was bought to be so much more than a man who always sits out squeeky bum time.

If like Owen he'd been bought to do a job when needed, I'd be delighted but he wasn't, he was bought to take us to the next level.

However I will add that if he signs a new deal and is happy to be third choice striker then I'll be chuffed, what a player to have as that option, an expensive third choice but still, it aint my money.
 
Sorry Pogue but until he's one of the first names on the teamsheet at the business end of the season I'll be disappointed, the fact is he was bought to be so much more than a man who always sits out squeeky bum time.

If like Owen he'd been bought to do a job when needed, I'd be delighted but he wasn't, he was bought to take us to the next level.

He was bought to keep us competitive, despite the imminent departure of the second best player in the world. Which is exactly what he's done.

I'm not gonna debate this any more though. It's pointless. Nobody will change their mind.
 
He was brought to act as cover for Rooney and Berba since Tevez and Ronaldo were leaving. The debate should be whether he was able to do that or not and if we need him still or not.
 
He was bought to keep us competitive, despite the imminent departure of the second best player in the world. Which is exactly what he's done.

I'm not gonna debate this any more though. It's pointless. Nobody will change their mind.

That's complete pap, Owen at £0 was signed to keep us competitve and provide a stop gap, Berbatov and indeed any player who a club invests a record sum of money in, wasn't purchased to merely "keep us competitive" or make up the numbers when the big games come around. You don't spend that sort of fee without expectation that the player in question will become an integral part of your team and it's success.

Fergie thought he could add something different to the United squad, and to a certain degree he has, but not enough to earn the unmitigated faith of Fergie himself when it comes to the crunch, do or die matches. His appearance stats in relation to CL and big PL meetings bears that perception out.
 
By "keep us competitive" I meant competing for league titles, obviously. Which is no mean feat when we lose a player of Ronaldo's quality. And of course he's not a stop gap, nor making up numbers. He's clearly an integral part of our recent success. fecking hell, isn't that obvious? What with scoring the most goals in the league and all?
 
Interesting Berbinterview, albeit via Google Translate.

Mitko how ride bus № 19 in Manchester?

- Great. It was cool. Very nicely done. Minus that the weather was bad. But that does not prevent so many people to come out on the streets and celebrate with us this title. You saw it alone. It was great. I had never had a parade. Only Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes from all of us were experienced in 1999 after winning the treble. Now the other had an amazing experience with a historic 19-title.

Though often attacked from all sides, this time all the fans stood by your side. Sing for you, chanting your name, screaming that they love and that u should stay. How did you feel listening to them?

These things make me feel uncomfortable. I'm not used to. Although there were good songs and cheers at my address. I really was uncomfortable, but it and make me feel proud that people appreciate what we did this year. And what I did help to the team. I guess every player becomes a little uncomfortable. Because we monitor reactions as they start to sing to someone. And everyone starts making fun of something that one you sing. But it is cool and pleasant.

But in the case and your team-mate Patrice Evra did not stop singing for you ...

This in turn is another example. He didint stop. At the end he had no voice to speak. But he is most entertaining. And because he thinks he is a singer, so do not let the microphone.

But for the other in United, Evra shouted only names, while he composing songs about you..

(Laughs). This is because we are in close relationships and we are great friends. Therefore, it is constantly fooling. It was a little uncomfortable, but very cool.

After you won the title, in Internet video which became hit someone interviewed you &Evra suddenly appeared and began to introduce you as the greatest goalscorer. Who shot him?

Rio Ferdinand shoot it. I think it was on his site. Rio took interviews of all teammates - each to say something about the title. And come to me. It was a very impromptu. Suddenly appeared and Evra. I looked at him and pretty and I dare.

First Bulgarian with the "Golden Boot" in England - what it means for you?

I am very proud of that fact. Since im coming from a small country in England, where every time every workout, every game you have to be above others, because your stranger. To become top scorer in England with the "Golden Boot" is a great thing for me. We'll cherish forever. Achieved is quite difficult, deprivation and suffering. But in the end rewarding.

Which of all your goals is the most valuable?

All are cool. Of course, we can not mark hat-trick against Liverpool. I hope this will remain in the hearts of all fans of Manchester. To score three goals in Liverpool is a great achievement. And fans constantly remind me so that I can not forget it. Especially the second goal. It ranks among the finest my best technique made hits. And I was very proud after this match.

Do you tremble in the last game with Blackpool "that Tevez can score and you can miss the" Golden Boot "?

As I am thrilled and Carlos was I guess. Then I watched - and he misses, misses, and I - misses, misses ... So get - split the prize. The matters at the end is that we win a record 19 title om Manchester United &Bulgarian is top striker in England. What more can I want? I really felt very happy after the tournament. Things ran perfectly. One big disappointment last. But it was written.

Let us clarity on what a big disappointment last. Many writings and stories. You say - where you was watching the Champions League final at Wembley?

It is normal for people to come up with after not seeing me in the stands. is normal to think that I am not the stadium. The truth is that I was in the locker room. And watching the game on TV. I was just disappointed. And I was ashamed that I am not in the group. So I did not want people to see me how I was and how sad i was. Because i hardly hide my emotions. So I preferred to stay alone and watch the match from the dressing room.

When you realized that you will be reserve? At the official training you was beaming ...

Before the match. The manager then tells the group. Notify me from his decision.I left very disappointed. But you can not do anything. You must accept it. So - I stayed in the locker room, watched the match ... After the loss still remained in the locker room and wait to see what Sir Alex said.

Even at the press conference at Wembley after 3:1 for "Barca" theme № 2 after losing the Champions League trophy was "Berbatov" Sir Alex told you something about this?

No. The biggest disappointment of all was missed Champions League. But Sir himself admitted in the locker room that Barcelona have overtaken us. I guess all they saw. Deservedly won, although very nice goal scored by Rooney. But Barcelona was one class above us. Everyone in the dressing room it recognized, but this does not prevent us from still sorry. We were well prepared, but against this team is really difficult to play.

Did you talk to Sir Alex exclusively with you after the game?

No. Dont have for what. This is his personal decision. I was really disappointed and hurt a lot. And I'm sure the other guys of the team was hurted a lot like me. But I could not do anything. Sorry that Bulgaria could not see me in the finals ,sorry that Bulgaria couldnt be happy, or to cry with me ... But everything was over. Everyone now makes his findings so why, why the team fell, why Berbatov was not in the group. But already told you why - it is considered the coach. But there's always next year. While playing football, one of my fights will be to take this cup. And basically I have to take it. But the biggest disappointment in general was that after the match i went to the bus and one person passed by me. I was thinking about something & in one momenti look at the person & saw he was carrying the cup.Do you understand me - the cup passed & he carries it . And im talking to myself- only so close will pass by me. It was like I'm in a movie. Pass and wear it casually, and he, the man certainly does not suspect this that i want to take it so much.

Do you believe that you will get a fourth chance for the Champions League final?

Sure. Why can not believe. Evra has four finals. And before the game told me: "Now if I lose the final third ..." Because there were two lost and one won. Already with three defeats. Although I'd give everything to be on his place, at least to have won one Cup. I will give everything to have another chance. But even if it did not happen, at least I had the opportunity to play two finals. No room for complaint.

Changed Do you plans after May 28, 2011?

No. I am a player of Manchester United and I am happy to fulfill the contract. Everyone have any difficulties, but I've always fought and will fight for a starting place. If I am a man who refused would never come to Manchester United. I never quit in life. July 4th is coming and startl all over again - fight for all the titles, the fight for starting role.

After the final at Wembley BBC wrote, "Thank you and goodbye, Dimitar. What to write "24 Hours"?

It is normal to write so after having thought that I was not at the stadium. After the match, Sir Alex also said that I was in the stadium. why not believe him? Why do you think is lying? You what to write? I'm a footballer of Manchester and I am happy to fulfill my contract! At United, I have many happy moments, we became champions for the 19 th time. And as I said in the clip of Rio after 19 comes 20. Right? To became a champion and top scorer does not mean we should stop here. I want more success. The team is great, the games are many - for eveyone will have scene. I want to be healthy.

In an interview after last season I wished you 20 goals. Once you will stay and fight, i wish you 30 for the 2011/2012 season at Manchester United?

(Laughs). It's true I wanted 20 goals. And it took that camp. Obviously when a person believes in himself, is formed. Even if one day you are talking with your friends. They were watching a film about positive thinking in the life of man. And once he had nothing to do here. I sat and watched it. Taking over, and you were thinking. I sat down and wrote on a piece - I want to be top scorer for England, to take the "Golden Boot" and become champions. And they even took that became those things. Well, I wrote and Champions League, but it did not happen. So i strongly believe that i will become a scorer and we will be champions, it has become. I believe and the Champions League but did not get. This does not reduce my enthusiasm for next year.

How about your contract with Manchester United?

It's about another year. And I'm excited to run it despite the disappointment suffered. The pain of Wembley could not refuse me, and further motivates me.

Sir Alex has not come to tell you "break up"?

No, no. If people decide that I needed them, will come after the end of my last year and will say: "Berbatov, continue for another year." And will not come now. I do not know people for where they hurry. I have my contract and my desire is to stay. This is Manchester United. Competition often takes out even more good performances on the pitch.

Many Bulgarians have reacted emotionally after Wembley and their view is no longer important for any club play. What will tell the gentleman from Manchester?

Why is not important for any club play? Because now you do not like Sara? (Laughs). All kidding aside. I've always aspired to higher goals. And my arrival in Manchester was the highest step for me. After Manchester "everything is down. And that moment will come when I would say: Thank you for everything, we are no longer needed. But now I'm a footballer for Manchester and my desire is to stay to help the 20 th title that will follow. I'm sure.

What joy you more - to carry the "Golden Boot" at home or to see where the golden smile Dea?

You can not compare family and profession. And both these things are my dear. In printsipsemeystvoto with a child that got me out first. Football is not just a second, but put it out there after the family. I am no longer the first youth and so glad that more of the goals I set myself, I've checked the. Remains a few. Then I finish playing, I'll do it with a smile on his face, to tell you honestly. And I say: "Everything is okay, as I wanted."

Have you been this year fatherly things that have so far been unknown to you?

I'm already familiar with everything. Full spec I am in this field. Which did amuse me. Having come back from training, you had a hard day or something you went, diversity at home to deal with the child, they landed. Forget about problems.

And after Wembley so you land?

Yes at all. With the family and friends. They were the match and after I saw them because I needed to talk from the male side closest to hear what they think. So - share with the nearest, the next day you are slightly better, but after a while you pass. And focused on the next challenge.
 
By "keep us competitive" I meant competing for league titles, obviously. Which is no mean feat when we lose a player of Ronaldo's quality. And of course he's not a stop gap, nor making up numbers. He's clearly an integral part of our recent success. What with scoring the most goals in the league and all.

He was purchased when Ronaldo was still here...Being competitive and contesting the title is the minimum expectation at United, it can't always happen, but substancial signings are made with the intention of that player playing an integral role in turning that challenge for honours into a successful one. I'm not saying Berbatov hasn't been integral to our success, this season flies in the face of that idea straight away, but despite his increased impact this season, it's obviously not been enough to convince SAF that he's a big game player or dependable when it comes to scoring the decisive goals, he said so himself on Saturday night in his explanation for selecting Owen over him on the bench.
 
No he didn't. He said Owen is a better option off the bench.

Not sure I agree, as it happens, but that's not the same thing as saying Berbatov isn't dependable or capable of scoring decisive goals.

Which is again, obvious, seeing as we've depended on him to score a number of decisive goals this season. We'd have won nowt without him.
 
No he didn't. He said Owen is a better option off the bench.

Not sure I agree, as it happens, but that's not the same thing as saying Berbatov isn't dependable or capable of scoring decisive goals.

Which is again, obvious, seeing as we've depended on him to score a number of decisive goals this season. We'd have won nowt without him.

He said he felt Owen was more likely to score a goal late on than Berbatov, a theory that I find difficult to disagree with considering what each player excells and doesn't excell at(Owen sniffing out chances and being clinical with them but offering little in terms of hold up or link up, Berba linking up the play but offering little movement in behind or trustworthy finishing).

I agree, without his contribution, we'd possibly not have achieved what we've managed to achieve this season but it obviously wasn't enough to convince SAF to include him as a sub with a view to providing a match-winning contribution off the bench was it? That for a club record buy and PL top scorer, sums up the enigma of the man perfectly.

I've never known a player polarise opinion as much as Berba has with United supporters over the last 3 years, my own view is that he's as talented as they come but not mentally resilient enough for a club as demanding and ruthless as United.
 
Some people will never be satisfied with anything Berbatov does. I mean even after finishing as the league's top scorer they still claim he doesn't suit us, SAF doesn't trust him and he is shit. It's incredible.

Goals dont always equal the quality of ones performances, Rooney is an excellent example of this if you look at this season vs last.

For my 2c, I like Berbatov but I simply dont (and never really did) think he is a good fit for our team, for the above reasons. He struggles as a lone striker, and is the 2nd choice partner for Rooney at the moment.

Nothing to do with transfer fees or the likes, but I think we can happily do without him. Rooney, Hernandez, Owen and Welbeck is a great set of forwards for us.
 
Goals dont always equal the quality of ones performances, Rooney is an excellent example of this if you look at this season vs last.

For my 2c, I like Berbatov but I simply dont (and never really did) think he is a good fit for our team, for the above reasons. He struggles as a lone striker, and is the 2nd choice partner for Rooney at the moment.

Nothing to do with transfer fees or the likes, but I think we can happily do without him. Rooney, Hernandez, Owen and Welbeck is a great set of forwards for us.

Why would you dump the league's top scorer and replace him with Welbeck when as Pogue pointed out, 'we'd have won nowt without him' this season?
 
Short memories. If Berbatov had been great for the second half of the season, and shit for the first, people would hail it a great season. Instead he was 'unlucky' enough to be great for the first half of the season and not so great for the second half.