Berbatov | Fulham player

I can't understand what more people want from Berbatov? He's not played the big games, he hasn't complained about it in public, he's got on with the job and wants to stay. Contrast to Tevez who acted a bitch, whinging every fecking week and the fans loved him.

I wasn't his biggest fan going into the season, he's proved me wrong, and although we look a lot better with Hernandez, he's accepting of the squad role so why are we trying to change the 1 area of our team which is very very good?
 
SmashedHombre said:
Short memories. If Berbatov had been great for the second half of the season, and shit for the first, people would hail it a great season. Instead he was 'unlucky' enough to be great for the first half of the season and not so great for the second half.
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As short as forgetting the 6 or 7 game period he was toss after Liverpool?

He's had a good season in the main, you can't knock finishing top scorer. Surely no one has ever done it scoring in so few games (11 I believe). Latterly he not only lost his starting place, but he wasn't even in the match squad for our biggest game of the season

It looked like finally being the season he cemented his worth as a United player. And its ended, for the third straight year, with us wondering if this bloke cuts out when we need him too. You win things at the tail end of the season, and Fergie clearly doesn't trust him with the chips down
 
B Cantona said:
As short as forgetting the 6 or 7 game period he was toss after Liverpool?

He's had a good season in the main, you can't knock finishing top scorer. Surely no one has ever done it scoring in so few games (11 I believe). Latterly he not only lost his starting place, but he wasn't even in the match squad for our biggest game of the season

It looked like finally being the season he cemented his worth as a United player. And its ended, for the third straight year, with us wondering if this bloke cuts out when we need him too. You win things at the tail end of the season, and Fergie clearly doesn't trust him with the chips down
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You can only win things at the tail end of the season if you've performed well enough in the early stages to be in a good enough position. Just ask Jenson Button ;)
 
Berbatov won us nowt.

His goals put us in a good position by the end of January, it was Rooney, Hernandez and Giggs for me who actually won us the league and put us into the CL Final.

And Rooney had an awful first half to the season but when they show highlights of this season in years to come, it'll be his goals against City, Chelsea, Blackburn etc in crucial games that made the difference.
 
Some of the Berbahate is unbelievable.

I think any sane person should admit that without his goals there wouldn't have been a league title.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
We'd have won nowt without him.
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Take his goals away, no but you can't say he won us the league if his last goal was in Feb, how many teams have you seen top of the league in Jan/Feb only to crumble?

Without RVP, Arsenal would have been further adrift out of the CL placings and they were top without him at one point.

As I say, it's all well and good being top with 3/4 months to go, but you've not won anything yet have you?
 
Scoreboard Red said:
Take his goals away, no but you can't say he won us the league if his last goal was in Feb, how many teams have you seen top of the league in Jan/Feb only to crumble?

Without RVP, Arsenal would have been further adrift out of the CL placings and they were top without him at one point.

As I say, it's all well and good being top with 3/4 months to go, but you've not won anything yet have you?
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And if you don't win games earlier in the season and find yourself 10th in January you won't be winning the league either. Is a league season of 38 matches, each worth the same number of points really that difficult a concept?
 
Epic said:
Some of the Berbahate is unbelievable.

I think any sane person should admit that without his goals there wouldn't have been a league title.
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As per my last post mate, his goals contributed greatly but they didn't win the league, Rooney contributed most at crunch time v City, West Ham, Chelsea, Blackburn etc, Berbatov didn't and that isn't an opinion, this is fact.

It'd be like saying Les Ferdinand & co were amazing for Newcastle from Aug-Feb in 1995/96 and they'd won the league until the froze and we overtook them, they looked like they'd win it but they didn't.
 
R_Nick said:
And if you don't win games earlier in the season and find yourself 10th in January you won't be winning the league either. Is a league season of 38 matches, each worth the same number of points really that difficult a concept?
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So are you saying we'd won the league by Berbatov's last goal against Bolton in Feb, is that what you're saying?

Again I'll repeat it for your benefit, league titles are not won in February, Rooney scoring won us the league of which Berbatov was a significant contributor...
 
Scoreboard Red said:
So are you saying we'd won the league by Berbatov's last goal against Bolton in Feb, is that what you're saying?

Again I'll repeat it for your benefit, league titles are not won in February, Rooney scoring won us the league of which Berbatov was a significant contributor...
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No, that's not what I'm saying. If that was what I was saying you'd know, because I'd have said it. It's usually the first clue.

I'll ask you a simple question, does the team that scores the most points between February and May win the league, or does the team that scores the most points between August and May win the league?
 
What can't you comprehend about us not being able to win the league without him?

We wouldn't have been challenging for the league had it not been for his contribution.
 
When Berbatov took a back seat, we had two inform strikers. What was happening before Christmas Johnno? A season does not start in February.
 
R_Nick said:
No, that's not what I'm saying. If that was what I was saying you'd know, because I'd have said it. It's usually the first clue.

I'll ask you a simple question, does the team that scores the most points between February and May win the league, or does the team that scores the most points between August and May win the league?
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August and May, obviously. That's nine whole months.
Between Feb-May equates to three months, one third of the season in which Berbatov did nowt, resulting in the conclusion Berb didn't have a good season, he had a good two-thirds at best (he also had a poor run Sep-Dec, but for dexterity's sake I'll keep this aside just for you).

So, the spider has been caught by his own web it would appear...
 
Scoreboard Red said:
August and May, obviously. That's nine whole months.
Between Feb-May equates to three months, one third of the season in which Berbatov did nowt, resulting in the conclusion Berb didn't have a good season, he had a good two-thirds at best (he also had a poor run Sep-Dec, but for dexterity's sake I'll keep this aside just for you).

So, the spider has been caught by his own web it would appear...
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Right, so you finally acknowledge that the league last 9 months, well done.

Another question for you, if the points won in the first two thirds of the season are taken away, can you still win the league by relying solely on the points won from February to May?

Let's try and keep the answer to a simple response this time, without the standard SR bullshit and attempted condescension.
 
Yes that's it, try quoting the question and then answering that part directly, I find it helps keep things on topic, and stops us from wildly missing the point at all times.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
Which have I avoided? You're asking same stuff as Nick...
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I'll point it out. In fact I'll edit the posts so it's the direct points.

R_Nick said:
And if you don't win games earlier in the season and find yourself 10th in January you won't be winning the league either. Is a league season of 38 matches, each worth the same number of points really that difficult a concept?
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Hectic said:
What can't you comprehend about us not being able to win the league without him?

We wouldn't have been challenging for the league had it not been for his contribution.
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Hectic said:
When Berbatov took a back seat, we had two inform strikers. What was happening before Christmas Johnno? A season does not start in February.
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R_Nick said:
Right, so you finally acknowledge that the league last 9 months, well done.

Another question for you, if the points won in the first two thirds of the season are taken away, can you still win the league by relying solely on the points won from February to May?

Let's try and keep the answer to a simple response this time, without the standard SR bullshit and attempted condescension.
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Well you can't take away all the points because he didn't win EVERY single point up until Feb, did he? If you took away his goals then you'd have different results ALTHOUGH you can't realistically say we'd have lost 2-0 against Liverpool as his place would have been taken by someone else and who knows, they might have scored four! We still would have beat Blackburn if you take his five goals away, still would've beat Brum but then again prob would've lost to Blackpool.

It's a theoretical argument, there's no way of proving or disproving how we'd have fared without him in the team for these games...
 
I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll have noticed you didn't answer the question, there, Johnno.
 
Basically, what you are saying is we won the league because Rooney and Co carried us from February to May. However, From August up until February, it's entirely irrelevant what Berbatov achieved, because it didn't last a season. That's completely ridiculous. You have said Rooney, Hernandez and Giggs won us the league from January, but at the same time you will deny Berbatov involved in that win, despite contributing massively in the first half of the season?

We would not have been in a position to win the league, had it not been for Berbatov's input in the first half. It's as simple as that. Forget what happened in February onwards, sure the emergence of Wayne and Hernandez helped secure the league with their partnership, and their input and many others was immense, but that doesn't excuse the fact they wouldn't have been able to do that, if we did not have Berbatov to help us reach that point in the first place.

I'm amazed you can think otherwise, or even want to argue otherwise. It's such a weird point you are trying to make.
 
Erm, Hectic...no I don't think that, I've said to Nick and Bryan he contributed SIGNIFICANTLY with his goals but the season didn't end there in Feb, did it? Rooney took the impetus and contributed most between Feb-May in winning us the title, Berb's contribution stopped abruptly so he did not win us the league, although he contributed greatly.

I keep being accused of not understanding this when I've said it a dozen feckin' times...
 
Jesus Christ, nobody has said the season ended in Feb. Nobody has said the league was won in Feb. Nobody has said he won us the league by himself. feck it's like talking to a 5 year old. The point is that without his contribution to the teams points haul we would not have won the league. It's not an opinion, it's not complication, it's not agenda driven, it's a stone cold fecking fact. If you take away the points that his goals won for the team, we'd not have won anything.

No ending the league early, no claiming victory in January, no misdirection or twisting of facts, just the simple point that without him we'd have won nothing.
 
Number7 said:
I can't understand what more people want from Berbatov? He's not played the big games, he hasn't complained about it in public, he's got on with the job and wants to stay. Contrast to Tevez who acted a bitch, whinging every fecking week and the fans loved him.

I wasn't his biggest fan going into the season, he's proved me wrong, and although we look a lot better with Hernandez, he's accepting of the squad role so why are we trying to change the 1 area of our team which is very very good?
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What we want, is a 30million pound striker on 100k a week 'and look for more' to play like a 30 million pound striker on 100k a week. Not a 10 million pound striker on 50k a week. Because that is what we're getting for all the money and time we've put in to Berbatov.
 
dimitar-berbatov-tractor.jpg


I'm off.
 
marchi-91 said:
What we want, is a 30million pound striker on 100k a week 'and look for more' to play like a 30 million pound striker on 100k a week. Not a 10 million pound striker on 50k a week. Because that is what we're getting for all the money and time we've put in to Berbatov.
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It's not his fault he cost £30million
 
Scoreboard Red said:
I've already said without his contribution we'd not have won but I said Berbatov won us nowt on his own which you jumped on
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Well yeah, but nobody has ever won anything in football "on their own", but in terms of contribution to our success this season (the Premier League) Berbatov has to be up there with Vidic and Nani as one of our best performers this season.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
Berbatov won us nowt.

His goals put us in a good position by the end of January, it was Rooney, Hernandez and Giggs for me who actually won us the league and put us into the CL Final.
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So how are you working out who is responsible for winning us the league then? You seem to admit he contributed significantly, but also that the significant contribution didn't result in him helping to win anything.

His contribution was as valuable as anyone elses, and I can't work out why you think others won the league, but Berbatov won 'nowt'.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
I've already said without his contribution we'd not have won but I said Berbatov won us nowt on his own which you jumped on
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Is this the stupidest argument on the internet? Nobody won us anything on their own. Football is a team game, and Berbatov was an important part of that team that won the Premier League. He stepped it up when others weren't performing, and when Berbatov wasn't performing, others stepped up. It's really not that complicated.
 
Hectic said:
So how are you working out who is responsible for winning us the league then? You seem to admit he contributed significantly, but also that the significant contribution didn't result in him helping to win anything.

His contribution was as valuable as anyone elses, and I can't work out why you think others won the league, but Berbatov won 'nowt'.
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I'll tell you how I came to that conclusion, quite simply he didn't play between Feb-May often and didn't score, Rooney & Hernandez DID play and DID score, especially against the likes of City, Chelsea, West Ham etc in the games which were crucial, had Berbatov had played in these games the law of averages state he most likely wouldn't have scored considering he hasn't done in any of the games of this magnitude in all his time with is.

Now, the likes of Feekeh, bless him, will claim Berbstov's substitution against West Ham was the turning point of our comeback when silly me thought it was Rooney who scored along with Hernandez.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
I'll tell you how I came to that conclusion, quite simply he didn't play between Feb-May often and didn't score, Rooney & Hernandez DID play and DID score, especially against the likes of City, Chelsea, West Ham etc in the games which were crucial, had Berbatov had played in these games the law of averages state he most likely wouldn't have scored considering he hasn't done in any of the games of this magnitude in all his time with is.

Now, the likes of Feekeh, bless him, will claim Berbstov's substitution against West Ham was the turning point of our comeback when silly me thought it was Rooney who scored along with Hernandez.
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You say that Rooney and Hernandez did score, and so you can say they won us the league, so why can't we apply the points you laid out here:

Scoreboard Red said:
Well you can't take away all the points because he didn't win EVERY single point up until Feb, did he? If you took away his goals then you'd have different results ALTHOUGH you can't realistically say we'd have lost 2-0 against Liverpool as his place would have been taken by someone else and who knows, they might have scored four! We still would have beat Blackburn if you take his five goals away, still would've beat Brum but then again prob would've lost to Blackpool.

It's a theoretical argument, there's no way of proving or disproving how we'd have fared without him in the team for these games...
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to them as well?
 
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