no way is she going to get this through its basically carrying on as normal in terms of the number 1 issue people voted forBrexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
no way is she going to get this through its basically carrying on as normal in terms of the number 1 issue people voted forOkay thanks, that makes a bit more sense, assuming there is going to be tariffs that is, otherwise it doesn't make a difference.
You don't know what you're talking about. Take it from someone who lives in Ireland.
It's not just about tariffs, it's about standards and regulations on top of tariffs and possible VAT issues.
There's actually already VAT issues, and fuel duty issues.
Yes, it's going to be far worse with the little difference that it will be with an outsider. Also we can't do it outside of an FTA-CU because we will have to grant that right to every other WTO members.
I'm not glossing at all over the that, you're probably referring at some other unspecified poster, I've been highlighting that if anything. But also, absolute twaddle back at you about Britain being able to control immigration fully. They don't. Linking me some article about illegal immigrants in the Calais camp does nothing.
UK has the ability to control non-EU immigration, always had. But not EU immigration. Admittedly, based on how non-EU immigration was handled there was never any genuine attempt by politicians to reduce immigration or net migration numbers. Those bothered by the levels of immigration (not me) should take the Government to task about that. But let's not pretend that there is any genuine control over EU immigration.
If I were to accurately describe the situation, I'd say Britain has partial control over its immigration. A large percentage of the public wants full control and a massive reduction of net migration. It might stupid, or irrational or whatever but it's a very strong current at the moment.
So what is that thing I have always needed if I (a British citizen) was flying from Dublin to Paris? Oh, yes a passport!
And what's that thing that I am still going to need when flying from Dublin to Paris? Yep, a passport.
And what's that thing I'll need if I'm flying from London to Paris? Still a passport, bet you're catching on here!
So my freedom of movement won't be effected one bit by the fact I've managed to make it to Dublin with no checks.
Actually, you won't have the right to work or loan anything in Paris, without a visa.
Right but.. you don't need a passport to travel between Ireland and the UK because of the CTA.
If the UK crashes out of the EU then there's no more CTA, Ireland will likely join Schengen instead.
Plus there's the fact that there are different queues and rules at every EU airport for non EU citizens, so the UK will instead have to adhere to those from now on.
UK citizens will be subject to security and visa checks any time they travel to an EU country, Ireland included.
Maybe, maybe not, but whatever happens, the same is going to be true whether there is an open border with NI or not, which is what my charming Irish friend doesn't seem to understand.
Open border and freedom of movement are two different things. Your previous post talked about freedom of movement.
Between NI and ROI I don't need a passport to be precise. Between England and NI or ROI I've always needed a passport as long as I can remember. (Maybe in the olden days you only needed a driving license but I think that is long gone). But it's irrelevant anyway, because I'd still need a passport between Dublin and the rest of the EU.
And whatever queue I have to get in to get to other EU countries in the future, will be the same queue whether there is a hard border between NI & ROI or not.
So it makes no difference!
My freedom of movement to other EU countries makes not a jot of difference whether there is a hard border between NI & ROI or not. I'm still either going to need a visa (or maybe not need a visa) but the hard border between NI & ROI won't be the determining factor in that.
If you're Northern Irish, you are (I believe) entitled to Irish citizenship, while also being British, and can move between NI and ROI freely. A hard Brexit would complicate that because you'd then have British citizens who're supposed to be entitled to move freely from a non-EU nation to an EU one even though we'd no longer be involved with FOM.
You are mixing things up and making statements that have no sense.
No, we can genuinely stop anyone and everyone at our border if we wanted to. We don't because of the cost involved, the organisation involved and the fact that immigrants are a net contributor to the economy and do many of the jobs we won't do.
http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who...-why-are-there-eu-rules-and-national-rules_en
EU law states we can stop any EU national from coming in and our law in general states we can stop anyone else from outside the EU too. We're not part of the Schengen agreement and we can stop anyone at Calais if we want.
You just don't want to hear the truth that we've always had control of our borders and always been able to stop anyone from entering but we don't do it now and we won't do it in future. The rules are there, we just choose not to enforce them because of all the time and effort that would take.
Explain to me how you think we'll change once we're out of the EU please.
I don't see why that complicates things. I am actually half Irish myself, so I can apply for an Irish passport. Which will give me dual citizenship I guess. So I'd still be an EU citizen. Where is the complication?
There's none there. The difference is that I believe all NI citizens have dual citizenship, which essentially means you have an entire portion of the UK expecting to be able to move freely between NI and ROI as they have done before, with open borders etc.
No between Ireland and the UK you don't need a passport if you're a UK/IE citizen, actually. Any established proof of ID is fine.
if you think having to go through the generally far slower, higher security, non-EU line and obtain a Visa any time you visit a country a half hour flight away is "irrelevant" then good for you, I doubt many others will feel the same.
Between the EU and the UK/Ireland no passport is necessary! You can cross with any EU Id card! It's just us Brits don't have them
Yeah no shit. And then Ireland and the UK joined the EU at the same time and it continues to exist.
Either way the CTA has only existed during a period when IE and the UK have been in the same bloc.
So if the UK is no longer in that bloc..
If there is no complication of me having British/Irish citizenship, why would it be a complication for NI citizens having dual citizenship? Just because a lot of people will have it, doesn't mean it is a complication?
No that's incorrect, you either need the EU passport card or a passport.
No. We genuinely, really, really cannot. You need a valid reason justifiable in a court of law, if you decide to prevent an EU citizen from entering the country. People have legal rights you can't violate unless they've done something that forfeits those rights.
EDIT: Stop linking me useless material and read what you're linking me first. That link is talking immigration into the EU. I.e non-EU nationals moving to Europe. Not about EU citizens with EU passports.
I don't think much will change, based on how non-EU migration has been handled. I think EU migration itself is not even a real problem since the collapse of the Pound against most European currencies. Net EU migration is at the lowest levels it's been for a long time.
Are there any passport/ID checks between NI and Ireland on the border i.e. you can drive right through? Because if there are none than @Boogie Man 's suggestion isn't feasible.
There is nothing between IE and NI. You can drive past the border and then only thing you'll notice is a different metric system on road signs.
Exactly. If a caf cannot pay a decent salary it should not be open. But nevertheless, i do not believe there aren't any adequate burger flippers on the dole and i do not believe people should be paid 2.90 per hour to pick fruit, wherever they are from. We've created slave economies, if that's what everybody wants then fine. Just dint ever moan about your static salaries.
But my original argument, is why would the EU care if there isn't a hard border between NI & ROI? I'm still gonna have to get in the slow lane on a flight from Dublin no matter what (if I only have a British passport), whether there is a hard border or not up near Donegal (or wherever)
I am German and am planning a trip to the UK. As it is not a member of the Schengen area, can I enter the UK with my German identity card or must I present my passport?
As an EU country, on presentation of your official German identity card. You do not need to present your passport.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/faq/index_en.htm
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm
You are wrong
Thought you meant Ireland > EU - which needs passport or our EU card.
Obviously that's mainly to do with trade and customs checks and tariffs on trade as opposed to movement of people between NI and IE.
But at the same time a non EU member being able to enter an EU country without any validation checks is illegal by EU law, unless they abide by EU laws like Norway (and even then I think some posters said there are checks between them & Sweden?
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit
Because we removed exit checks.
We can implement them again in full if we wanted to but we don't.
My take is it is just the EU being awkward. It makes no difference to any other EU countries what the UK and ROI agree upon on that little bit of border.
It's a shame, that Ireland fought long and hard for their freedom from Britain, only to give up that freedom to the EU who are now dictating what Ireland can and can't do on their own borders!
Freedom of movement is in fact free movement of labour, it's not about the physical movement of persons through borders, the Schengen agreement is about the physical right to move and the extension of member states citizens's rights to all EU citizens. Technically in Ireland and UK, I could be thrown out of the country if I don't have a job, it's different to France-Spain where I can be in Spain without a job as long as I don't require any benefits.
It would be like the equivalent of me caring whether there was a hard border between northern Cyprus and southern Cyprus. It makes no difference to me, or anyone else!
Aaaaaaand you're going on ignore. Pooft!
Yes that's all true. Likewise UK citizens currently have far more rights in Ireland than other EU nationals and vice-versa. I think the likely outcome is that even on a hard-brexit the UK and Ireland will find a way to keep those benefits between our citizens and allow us to live within each other's countries without restrictions, but obviously we would have to move through a border to do so, sadly.