Danny Welbeck

I don't see how impressing and still getting thrashed week in week out is going to help him progress. He need to go to a midtable team with a hope of winning some games and perhaps having a crack at a Europa league place. Going to Blackpool isn't the answer. There are plenty of clubs such as Blackburn and Bolton where he can go and slot straight into the first team, he is better than most of what they have in the same positions.
 
BAMSOLA said:
I don't see how impressing and still getting thrashed week in week out is going to help him progress. He need to go to a midtable team with a hope of winning some games and perhaps having a crack at a Europa league place. Going to Blackpool isn't the answer. There are plenty of clubs such as Blackburn and Bolton where he can go and slot straight into the first team, he is better than most of what they have in the same positions.
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I agree a spell with a top championship side challenging for the title would be more beneficial than struggling week in week out with the crowd on his back. Bad kind of pressure for a young player
 
Decotron said:
I agree a spell with a top championship side challenging for the title would be more beneficial than struggling week in week out with the crowd on his back. Bad kind of pressure for a young player
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Yeah, not to mention the lack of decent service. If we can't get a decent midtable prem side for him then a top championship club will do.
 
It's a tricky one.

A season in the Championship could end up with Welbeck in Cleverley's situation. Arguably too good for that level but with doubts remaining about whether he can cut it at the top of the PL.

If we opt for a PL loan, is it better to go for a club from the lower half of the league, with less competition for places? Or a stronger side, that will play better football and create more chances, with the downside that he might struggle for games?

Feck knows really.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If we opt for a PL loan, is it better to go for a club from the lower half of the league, with less competition for places? Or a stronger side, that will play better football and create more chances, with the downside that he might struggle for games?
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I think Bolton and Blackburn are two good options as he is good enough to make the starting lineup for both and their seasons could go either way.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's a tricky one.

A season in the Championship could end up with Welbeck in Cleverley's situation. Arguably too good for that level but with doubts remaining about whether he can cut it at the top of the PL.

If we opt for a PL loan, is it better to go for a club from the lower half of the league, with less competition for places? Or a stronger side, that will play better football and create more chances, with the downside that he might struggle for games?

Feck knows really.
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Lower half of PL side, someone like Bolton, or even Blackpool, where he'll get a chance to play regularly against PL quality defences. Yes he won't always see much of the ball and will probably have to feed off scraps, but in a sense that could be good for him. But the experience of regularly playing against top level defenders is what he really needs now.
 
Yeah, wouldn't want any of our players to join them. After the first few games when they might have a bit of joy, I can see them being routinely spanked nearly every week.
 
It doesn't really matter how many goals they concede regarding Welbeck though.

They will be this years Burnley. Play some nice football but get torn open at the back. So an attacking player would still have the opportunity to impress. Plus Blackpool play a 451/433 so Welbeck could operate on the flank or centrally for them.

As long as he's playing, and facing up against PL defences, then I'd be happy.
 
keep danny here i say, hes done nothing but impress for us so far in pre season, he deserves his chance here, no matter how young he is.
 
Defeat is still defeat for top player and if he hopes to be a top player it will be the same for Danny already.

You would also be taking a huge gamble if you are hoping that a newly promoted side will fair well in attack with Danny there. Chances are they will be dire, score very few goals and toward the end of the season be already relegated and playing overly defensive football to avoid heavy defeats.

Their dressing rooms are also likely to lack real strong characters and so its not the type of place you want to send a 19year old talent trying to develop the mental side of his game. When heads drop they normally stay that way for quite sometime.
 
BAMSOLA said:
Defeat is still defeat for top player and if he hopes to be a top player it will be the same for Danny already.

You would also be taking a huge gamble if you are hoping that a newly promoted side will fair well in attack with Danny there. Chances are they will be dire, score very few goals and toward the end of the season be already relegated and playing overly defensive football to avoid heavy defeats.

Their dressing rooms are also likely to lack real strong characters and so its not the type of place you want to send a 19year old talent trying to develop the mental side of his game. When heads drop they normally stay that way for quite sometime.
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It's all speculative though. Perhaps a season of hard knocks will do the young lad good mentally? Perhaps defeats will teach him some lessons and inspire some extra determination?

Burnley scored 42 goals last season which was more than Birmingham, Blackburn, Stoke, Fulham, Wolves, Wigan, Hull and Portsmouth, and the same amount that Bolton scored. Blackpool play a similiar sytle at a similar level imo. Some games they will be backs against the wall and playing on the counter, but that could be excellent experience for a player.

Passing comment on the characters in the Blackpool dressing room is a bit silly.
 
I said Blackpool for a reason.. Also if your saying they play decent/good football I can totally see it working out..
 
Rowem said:
It doesn't really matter how many goals they concede regarding Welbeck though.
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It matters if they can't keep the ball/create any chances. What's the point in one of our young players playing up front for a team that hardly sees the ball? I'd rather he had a good spell for a decent championship club, or maybe even fought for a place at Sunderland.

It's also not great for confidence to lose most weeks.
 
sincher said:
It matters if they can't keep the ball/create any chances. What's the point in one of our young players playing up front for a team that hardly sees the ball? I'd rather he had a good spell for a decent championship club, or maybe even fought for a place at Sunderland.

It's also not great for confidence to lose most weeks.
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Why would he hardly see the ball? Blackpool use the ball well.
 
I just think their squad is way short of the quality required to compete in the premiership.

Could be wrong.
 
sincher said:
I just think their squad is way short of the quality required to compete in the premiership.

Could be wrong.
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Yes but what does that have to do with them getting the ball to Welbeck?

Considering the number of long ball teams in the PL it's not as if they'll struggle to get on the ball. Very very rarely does a match between two mid or lower PL teams result in either side dominating possession.
 
My first choice would be for him to stay at OT, I would have him ahead of Macheda and Diouf in the pecking order, and his ability to play wide could also be valuable.

If not, the most important thing is that he plays week in week out at a decent footballing side. I don't really mind which team that is - Bolton, West Brom, Blackpool.
 
Blackpool would be a good move in my opinion. We would see what he is made of if he had to battle down near the bottom of the table. It wouldn't be a bad thing for Macheda either.
 
Rowem said:
Yes but what does that have to do with them getting the ball to Welbeck?

Considering the number of long ball teams in the PL it's not as if they'll struggle to get on the ball. Very very rarely does a match between two mid or lower PL teams result in either side dominating possession.
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Maybe.

I just think he can play at a level above Blackpool. I'd settle for West Brom, even, but Blackpool look like real whipping boys unless things change.
 
Name Changed said:
Blackpool would be a good move in my opinion. We would see what he is made of if he had to battle down near the bottom of the table. It wouldn't be a bad thing for Macheda either.
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Definitely. Not only would the regular first team football be good for him, but Macheda would benefit from having to track back and work defensively as well as try and lead the line.
 
sincher said:
Maybe.

I just think he can play at a level above Blackpool. I'd settle for West Brom, even, but Blackpool look like real whipping boys unless things change.
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This is going round is circles.

It doesn't fecking matter how many goals they concede.
 
Rowem said:
This is going round is circles.

It doesn't fecking matter how many goals they concede.
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Exactly, it's the amount of games they'll play and then the style of play being an important second, whether they win or lose doesn't really matter to us
 
SecondFig said:
Definitely. Not only would the regular first team football be good for him, but Macheda would benefit from having to track back and work defensively as well as try and lead the line.
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If anything, I'd say that Macheda needs it more!!
 
I don't agree. I'm not having a go, it's fine that I don't agree, but I still don't.

I don't want one of our players playing for a team that I think is going to really struggle every week.
 
sincher said:
I don't agree. I'm not having a go, it's fine that I don't agree, but I still don't.

I don't want one of our players playing for a team that I think is going to really struggle every week.
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I get that you don't agree. I've pretty much been asking why for the last 4 or 5 posts.

So, why?
 
sincher said:
I don't agree. I'm not having a go, it's fine that I don't agree, but I still don't.

I don't want one of our players playing for a team that I think is going to really struggle every week.
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Rowem said:
I get that you don't agree. I've pretty much been asking why for the last 4 or 5 posts.

So, why?
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I'm with Rowem on this one, doesn't matter if the side finish bottom, if Welbeck/Macheda/Diouf start 30+ league games then it'll be great experience for them. Obviously it's better if they start 30+ games for a midtable side, but the starts are what's important - not the success of the host-club
 
I think you learn more from less games at united then playing more at certain other clubs. Welbeck has been away on loan, albiet cut short. He's been one of our better players on the tour and so yes lets loan him out? Is it the best thing for him? It's tough. He's impressed

You get the experience of games and maybe struggling will transpose itself to be like the pressure where you have to win every game. That said I'd rather we kept him until Jan and reviewed the situation after that.
 
Players that we keep loaning forever usually end up being sold, I think it'll be the same with Welbeck if we loan him this season - someone will come up with a bid next year and he will be gone. If Ferguson doesn't give him a chance this season, I reckon that will be it for him.
 
UnitedBoy said:
keep danny here i say, hes done nothing but impress for us so far in pre season, he deserves his chance here, no matter how young he is.
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What chance will he get? Rooney, Berbatov, Owen and Hernandez are all ahead of him in the pecking order.
 
Sarni said:
Players that we keep loaning forever usually end up being sold, I think it'll be the same with Welbeck if we loan him this season - someone will come up with a bid next year and he will be gone. If Ferguson doesn't give him a chance this season, I reckon that will be it for him.
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Evans had 3 loan spells.
He's 19.
We are very well stocked for forwards.
 
Striker10 said:
I think you learn more from less games at united then playing more at certain other clubs. Welbeck has been away on loan, albiet cut short. He's been one of our better players on the tour and so yes lets loan him out? Is it the best thing for him? It's tough. He's impressed

You get the experience of games and maybe struggling will transpose itself to be like the pressure where you have to win every game. That said I'd rather we kept him until Jan and reviewed the situation after that.
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I'd agree, but we play 4-5-1 a lot, and 4-4-2 the rest of the time. Welbeck, even optimistically, is maybe joint 5th in line (Rooney>Berbatov>Owen>Hernandez) with Kiko and Diouf. Simply, barring some serious injuries, even if Diouf and Kiko go on loan Danny won't get more than the odd 10 minutes and a couple of CC matches.

He needs more than that, he's only 19, he can go away on loan for a season and still start next season at just 20 and with more experience of playing against top level defenders in competitive matches.
 
Blair said:
Yes but standing around up front with feck all service all season isn't really going to benefit him either.
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This has been covered in numerous posts.

Let's please distinguish between conceding lots of goals and not getting the ball.
 
Dans said:
What chance will he get? Rooney, Berbatov, Owen and Hernandez are all ahead of him in the pecking order.
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If the manager wants to change the pecking order then he is free to do so. It is not as though Berbatov or Owen made a strong case for themselves last season. Based on last season's performances I would say that Welbeck didn't seem ready but on this tour he has looked close to being ready for first team action. At some point promising young players get chosen over more experienced ones.
 
Rowem said:
I get that you don't agree. I've pretty much been asking why for the last 4 or 5 posts.

So, why?
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I think strikers playing for really poor teams often get very isolated during games and have a pretty depressing job. It can hurt confidence. It would be a valid test, but probably not the right one for a 19 year old player.

You seem to think that Blackpool will ship goals but will still play some decent stuff and he'd see plenty of the ball. I don't know for sure, but I can't see that happening with their current squad. I would argue that they will really struggle to make an impact in the majority of their games, and that playing for them will be no fun at all. I can't see them being nearly as good as Portsmouth were last season, yet I look at a player like Picquionne for example who isn't all that bad but can't have enjoyed last season very much, despite playing many games. He was feeding off scraps, and that's with a team with at least some premiership standard players. Blackpool have Adam who looks quite good but hasn't played in the prem yet. Who else?

I can certainly imagine their defence and keeper having a lot to do, but not so sure about strikers. Might not be so bad if he was on the wing I suppose.
 
datura said:
He's only 19.
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I know, but when he comes back from a loan spell next season he will be almost 21. 21-year old with no top division experience (that's assuming he goes to a Championship side as I don't see him being a regular in Premier League) doesn't bode well at a club like United, in most cases we just let players like that go. Although we're not really overstocked in strikers department so he could make it here regardless.
 
Rowem said:
It's all speculative though. Perhaps a season of hard knocks will do the young lad good mentally? Perhaps defeats will teach him some lessons and inspire some extra determination?
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Its not specualtive, its based on the performances of promoted sides in previous years and the assesments of managers themselves. Not for nothing do managers say that there is a large gap between the prem and the championship. Its far more speculative to say that Blackpool might play good football and suprise a few teams than it is to say they will struggle to create chances and go on long losing streaks. Thats not to say they won't suprise everybody but when you are talking about sending a future talent there then beleive me as a manager you don't want to be betting on long odd where easier odds are availible. He could play week in week out for Blackburn or Bolton as he is good enough and they are proven prem class. Why would we send him to Blackpool without exploring these options first.

As for struggling being a character building exercise, there is struggle - which he would do most weeks with blackburn or Bolton and then there is getting hammered - which is the treatment he is highly likely to receive most weeks with Blackpool. One of these experiances is character buliding the other is demoralising, i'd credit you with knowing which is which.

Rowem said:
Burnley scored 42 goals last season which was more than Birmingham, Blackburn, Stoke, Fulham, Wolves, Wigan, Hull and Portsmouth, and the same amount that Bolton scored. Blackpool play a similiar sytle at a similar level imo. Some games they will be backs against the wall and playing on the counter, but that could be excellent experience for a player.
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Blackpool play at nowhere near a similar level to Blackburn, Stoke, Wigan, Fulham or Birmingham(due mainly to their cash injection and better cash reserves) thats absolute rubbish i'm afraid. You are talking about sides who have proven themselves to be upto premiership standards and just about held their own to stay in the division. Blackpool are a club that have never ever played in the prem division. What could you possibly be basing your assesment on? Speculation perhaps?

Rowem said:
Passing comment on the characters in the Blackpool dressing room is a bit silly.
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The simple fact is it is no slight on the characters in their dressing room to suggest that they might not have characters who are strong enough personalities to be successful premiership players. Even Holloway himself questioned that during their most recent pre-season friendly. Yes it could have been kidology but i'm sure even if it was it had a hint of truth about it. They are a very young side and it takes a certain amount of experiance to cope with a 5-10 game losing streaks without dropping your head or going into your shell. Thats of course not certain to happen but its a possiblity as its not unheard of for a promoted side to experiance this.

Why bet on long odds when shorter odds are availible.
 
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