Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Buster15 said:
For the majority of the time, most Palestinians do live their lives in relative peace, given the ongoing situation in the Middle East.

The decision that was made in 1948 to give the Israeli people their homeland is what it is.
And the State of Israel is, in the main, recognised by the global community.

This latest situation was the result of a terrorist group attacking Israel. Not the other way round.
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..." most Palestinians do live their lives in relative peace, given the ongoing situation in the Middle East."...

What are you talking about?

..."The decision that was made in 1948 to give the Israeli people their homeland is what it is"....

I wonder what UK would say if a UN resolution would give Wessex , Mercia, Northumbria and East Anglia to Norway as it is their Homeland

Also a decision was made to not allow settlers to the westbank (and lots of other occupied land). Has this been respected? Seems that UN resolutions only applies when favorable

..."And the State of Israel is, in the main, recognised by the global community"...

So does recognize Palestine

..."This latest situation was the result of a terrorist group attacking Israel. Not the other way round."...

The latest situation is a result of an occupation, putting 2.3 millions in a tiny space, killing hundreds of them every year children included with indiscriminate attacks , make them dependent on everything and hope that this shit doesn't happen more often. The score doesn't start now that Hamas did this barbaric attack. It starts 75 years ago and it continued the last 20 years with thousands of people killed 95% Palestinians. To be honest, I thought that an intelligent and sensible poster like you would know better. Don't expect anyone to be pro palestinian but this analysis couldn't be more appaling
 
ATXRedDevil said:
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Is that supposed to be the centre of the blast? Any air dropped bomb would leave a decent sized crater and all but the smallest 250lbers would vapourise most of those cars. They also don't burn the way the explosion did in the videos.

I wouldn't say who is responsible but i'm pretty confident whatever it was didn't come from an aircraft.
 
Rajma said:
Do people reckon this ground operation is still going ahead? They can’t keep their mobilized forces in an active state for much longer you would think given their population size.
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It will go ahead, imo. Bombing the living crap out of Gaza won't achieve anything meaningful (other than mass killing civilians) and would barely reduce Hamas' offensive capabilities. No to mention that backing down would make them look like clowns, especially after all that posturing from the Israeli officials. The only reasons to the delays are the bad weather and the Americans reigning them in to think that plan through.
ATXRedDevil said:
Hah. Someone needs to lay off the far-left propoganda.

Do you think Arabs were in those lands from the beginning of time? Who were the colonists then? The Muslims weren't the only ones to invade and conquer the land. Remember the Egyptians (Jewish slaves built the pyramids) and Romans?

Fascists murdered 6 million Jews 70ish years ago. Hamas has a stated goal of eradicating Jews from the planet. When the UK messed the region up, they proposed a two-state system for Israel and Palestine. Israel accepted, the latter rejected and together with other Arab countries chose war. They lost. Israel left Gaza in 2005. The next year the Palestinians elected a terrorist organization, who then removed the democratic process, that had clearly stated their hatred and desire to kill the Jews. If you lived next door to a terrorist group with a stated aim of eradicating you, how would you act?

I feel terrible for the innocent Palestinians. But they elected Hamas, the hatred is bred into them at a young age (see numerous videos online of Palestinian children playing "stab the Jew" or interviews of Palestinian kids at the UN SCHOOL in Gaza saying they would kill a Jew). Children. To quote an Israeli diplomat from the 70s, the moral difference between the two is that Jewish children are not taught to hate.

Israel has allowed millions of Palestinians in. 20% of the country or around 1.5 million people living in Israel are Palestinians. With full voting, democratic rights.

Hamas hides behind the innocent. Builds military op sites under churches, schools, hospitals, prevents withdrawal after the IDF warns of an impending attack (never seen Hamas give advanced warning, by the way). Hamas cares so much about their people that they dug up water pipes donated by the international community to make rockets out of them. Who needs clean water anyway?
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Ewww.
 
Buster15 said:
There is nothing stupid nor offensive about any of that. It is a statement of fact.
But don't let that confuse you.
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It is offensive at the very least.

There is no definition of peace that could ever be applied towards the Palestinian people in recent times. Even when bombs were not flying. Living in apartheid is not peaceful under any means. To think it's peaceful is dehumanizing to those who have to survive in it every day. You have no right of movement within your space, nor a right to return if you leave. Property rights are nil, as some settler can just grab your land at the taking. You have no right of recourse if you're the victim of violence at the hands of Israeli civilians, police or military. And you live under fear of death or harm every day. How is that peace, even relatively speaking? Is Ukraine at peace?
 
ATXRedDevil said:
Seems you've missed the entire point. IDF isn't trying to kill civilians. As I said above, it's about intent, state of mind. Does murder = manslaughter?

It's kind of hard not to kill civilians when the military targets are embedded in civilian infrastructure to maximize civilian casualties to engender support. And see, it's working.
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It's quite easy when you don't knowingly target civilian buildings. There's no logic to what you're saying at all.
 
Is there any credible reporting on the actual death toll here? If the estimate of 500 is accurate I still fail to see how a PIJ rocket could cause that carnage, but that’s just going off the history of rocket miss-hits in Gaza.
 
ATXRedDevil said:
Seems you've missed the entire point. IDF isn't trying to kill civilians. As I said above, it's about intent, state of mind. Does murder = manslaughter?

It's kind of hard not to kill civilians when the military targets are embedded in civilian infrastructure to maximize civilian casualties to engender support. And see, it's working.
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Ya right. The easiest way to kill terrorists in a civilian area is to just kill everyone in the area. Guess govts of the other countries didn't get that memo.
 
ATXRedDevil said:
Seems you've missed the entire point. IDF isn't trying to kill civilians. As I said above, it's about intent, state of mind. Does murder = manslaughter?

It's kind of hard not to kill civilians when the military targets are embedded in civilian infrastructure to maximize civilian casualties to engender support. And see, it's working.
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1. Seems the overall rhetoric is less of surgical strikes against Hamas, and more of revenge and leveling Gaza. That doesn't scream absence of intent by the IDF

2. I'm getting convicted of murder if I lob grenades over the fence into my neighbor's yard killing several people. Even if there's no intent of killing, the act alone is enough to exceed sheer manslaughter.
 
2cents said:
Is there any credible reporting on the actual death toll here? If the estimate of 500 is accurate I still fail to see how a PIJ rocket could cause that carnage, but that’s just going off the history of rocket miss-hits in Gaza.
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Some fellas on Twitter doubt that 500 got killed. But we don't have other sources on this other than Gazan authorities.
 
2cents said:
Is there any credible reporting on the actual death toll here? If the estimate of 500 is accurate I still fail to see how a PIJ rocket could cause that carnage, but that’s just going off the history of rocket miss-hits in Gaza.
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No. Likely nowhere near 500 but nobody knows for sure. Could have ignited propellant on the ground.

Hamas/Palestinians are also limiting independent journalists access to the blast site.
 
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JPRouve said:
Do you have a single march or protest that has that message?

Claiming that palestinians are colonizers when they are locals like a bunch of other ethnic groups who are all related.

Pyramid builders weren't slaves but paid and skilled workers.

Then there is your depiction of palestinian kids, not only that depiction is vile in itself but it ignores what happens in the West Bank where Hamas isn't a thing. Jewish extremism and activism is though, would you make the same comments about them and how their kids see palestinians?

Bascially every other sentences you put your foot in your mouth.
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The one in Sydney literally had them chanting "gas the Jews"

There were also celebrations for what Hamas had done in various Cities around the world, including London.

Then there were Universities using images of paragliders to promote rallies. The line between pro Palestine and anti Israel, or more accurately anti Jewish isn't always clear when it comes to some.
 
2cents said:
Is there any credible reporting on the actual death toll here? If the estimate of 500 is accurate I still fail to see how a PIJ rocket could cause that carnage, but that’s just going off the history of rocket miss-hits in Gaza.
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All I've seen is a MSF doctor saying colleagues on the ground estimated between 700 and 800 killed, but that was late yesterday. Not seen any updates today but could be because info is hard to get out.
 
Irrational. said:
How convenient that the time Israel most needs evidence to prove “it wasn’t them”, as the world began to wake up and smell the coffee and condemn their genocidal atrocities, they’re able to capture crystal clear audio confessions and neatly worded documents that ties it all together like the end of an episode of Scooby Doo.

Investigation done and dusted, with the conclusion that they aren’t the bad guys when the dust hasn’t even settled on the hundreds of dead bodies.

And those Hamas terrorists would’ve gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t for those meddling Israelis. :rolleyes:

Biden with his unwavering support for the real terrorists is also unsurprising.
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Convenient or not, the preponderance of available evidence suggests that in this case they're correct. There's quite a lot of evidence. You can nitpick some parts of it. But all of it?

You mention dust settling on the hundreds of dead bodies. Has it occurred to you we haven't even seen these hundreds of bodies? You're acting like only the Israeli government lies. Do you accept Hamas news as truth?
 
Irrational. said:
How convenient that the time Israel most needs evidence to prove “it wasn’t them”, as the world began to wake up and smell the coffee and condemn their genocidal atrocities, they’re able to capture crystal clear audio confessions and neatly worded documents that ties it all together like the end of an episode of Scooby Doo.

Investigation done and dusted, with the conclusion that they aren’t the bad guys when the dust hasn’t even settled on the hundreds of dead bodies.

And those Hamas terrorists would’ve gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t for those meddling Israelis. :rolleyes:

Biden with his unwavering support for the real terrorists is also unsurprising.
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There are real terrorists on both sides. I am firmly against Israeli occupation and their methods, but the evidence in this case does point to Hamas being responsible for that blast, and massively exaggerating the amount of fatalities.
 
JagUTD said:
The one in Sydney literally had them chanting "gas the Jews"

There were also celebrations for what Hamas had done in various Cities around the world, including London.

Then there were Universities using images of paragliders to promote rallies. The line between pro Palestine and anti Israel, or more accurately anti Jewish isn't always clear when it comes to some.
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Then I stand corrected.
 
2cents said:
Is there any credible reporting on the actual death toll here? If the estimate of 500 is accurate I still fail to see how a PIJ rocket could cause that carnage, but that’s just going off the history of rocket miss-hits in Gaza.
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The figure originated from Hamas did it not? And it would have taken a while surely to move so many bodies, especially given some may have been severely damaged.

I don't think there has been any images released as yet (though I've no intention of seeking them out), which given the usual nature of such atrocities, tends to be the case so they can be used as part of the propaganda war.
 
FriedClams said:
There are real terrorists on both sides. I am firmly against Israeli occupation and their methods, but the evidence in this case does point to Hamas being responsible for that blast, and massively exaggerating the amount of fatalities.
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I agree with this.

After seeing the pictures of whole buildings being wiped out by the IDF bombs and then pictures from the hospital site i'm unsure how can anyone think they are the same type of bombs, now that's not to say a different bomb may have been used of course but then why would they change?
 
Israel offering to allow aid in via Egypt, with lots of conditions, but will not allow any aid via their border points. Whilst 2 million people are now dying of thirst, amongst other things. And now they've threatened to destroy the aid if it ends up in hamas hands. Considering they've levelled whole streets because of hamas being there...and hamas 'control' the territory, looks like they are getting their excuses in early.
 
JagUTD said:
The one in Sydney literally had them chanting "gas the Jews"

There were also celebrations for what Hamas had done in various Cities around the world, including London.

Then there were Universities using images of paragliders to promote rallies. The line between pro Palestine and anti Israel, or more accurately anti Jewish isn't always clear when it comes to some.
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Are there any videos showing the "gas the jews" chant in Sydney? It's a very common tactic for pro-Israeli groups to make up stuff to delegitimize protests against Israel and frame them as anti-semetic. The posters with the paragliders though we're true and definitely wrong.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Are there any videos showing the "gas the jews" chant in Sydney? It's a very common tactic for pro-Israeli groups to make up stuff to delegitimize protests against Israel and frame them as anti-semetic. The posters with the paragliders though we're true and definitely wrong.
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ATXRedDevil said:
Hah. Someone needs to lay off the far-left propoganda.

Do you think Arabs were in those lands from the beginning of time? Who were the colonists then? The Muslims weren't the only ones to invade and conquer the land. Remember the Egyptians (Jewish slaves built the pyramids) and Romans?

Fascists murdered 6 million Jews 70ish years ago. Hamas has a stated goal of eradicating Jews from the planet. When the UK messed the region up, they proposed a two-state system for Israel and Palestine. Israel accepted, the latter rejected and together with other Arab countries chose war. They lost. Israel left Gaza in 2005. The next year the Palestinians elected a terrorist organization, who then removed the democratic process, that had clearly stated their hatred and desire to kill the Jews. If you lived next door to a terrorist group with a stated aim of eradicating you, how would you act?

I feel terrible for the innocent Palestinians. But they elected Hamas, the hatred is bred into them at a young age (see numerous videos online of Palestinian children playing "stab the Jew" or interviews of Palestinian kids at the UN SCHOOL in Gaza saying they would kill a Jew). Children. To quote an Israeli diplomat from the 70s, the moral difference between the two is that Jewish children are not taught to hate.

Israel has allowed millions of Palestinians in. 20% of the country or around 1.5 million people living in Israel are Palestinians. With full voting, democratic rights.

Hamas hides behind the innocent. Builds military op sites under churches, schools, hospitals, prevents withdrawal after the IDF warns of an impending attack (never seen Hamas give advanced warning, by the way). Hamas cares so much about their people that they dug up water pipes donated by the international community to make rockets out of them. Who needs clean water anyway?
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Please never post about this topic ever again.
 
When the defense is "we're not as bad as hamas" I think enough said.
 
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