Luka Modric / Signs for Real Madrid

Player who wants to win things but hasn't yet > player who won everything in a season and then followed it up with a particularly lacklustre campaign

I blame Benitez for that lackluster start. They were outside the top four when he was there and they finished second at the end of the season. They did come back and perform good. Sneidjer needed a break. He had a long season before that with the UCL final and the WC. He looked exhausted a little bit.
 
Ok, I'm being a bit harsh there and the generalisation was unnecessary but the Dutch aren't exactly known for their teamwork and down to earth nature are they.

In any case, we know enough Sneijder to know that he is indeed an arrogant cock.

Really? What are you basing that on? Genuine question, by the way.
 
The whole Inter team did. Its not like they played well and he let them down.

I do think we need to be wary of it, but only in terms of the money we're prepared to pay.

I don't think any of the Inter players had as big a drop in form as Sneijder though. Admittedly he was coming from a much higher level but it was that level of performance which is presumably what nearly everyone's got so excited about.

I agree with your second point. There are surely too many question marks to justify spending anything like the amount of money it would take to sign him.
 
I don't think any of the Inter players had as big a drop in form as Sneijder though. Admittedly he was coming from a much higher level but it was that level of performance which is presumably what nearly everyone's got so excited about.

I agree with your second point. There are surely too many question marks to justify spending anything like the amount of money it would take to sign him.

Diego Milito, Julio Cesar and the whole Inter defence had at least as big a drop in performance as Sneijder
 
In terms of specific incidents, no. At any rate, the vast majority of great players (and Bendtner) are arrogant. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, Ronaldo was hardly a statue of humility yet he did OK here as far as I recall.
 
In terms of specific incidents, no. At any rate, the vast majority of great players (and Bendtner) are arrogant. Nothing wrong with that.

There seemed to be a time where the Dutch national team always seems to have tons of infighting, cliques and players quitting and then unquitting (if that's not a word then it should be).
 
There seemed to be a time where the Dutch national team always seems to have tons of infighting, cliques and players quitting and then unquitting (if that's not a word then it should be).

That was all Davids' fault. :angel:
 
Yeah, Ronaldo was hardly a statue of humility yet he did OK here as far as I recall.

I don't dispute that there's a positive element to it in terms of having the confidence/belief to perform on such a big stage but I think there's a difference with Ronaldo. He grew as a player with us and was highly motivated to succeed during his time here. Sneijder strikes me as potentially displaying a particularly toxic mix of being an arrogant cock and lacking motivation.
 
There seemed to be a time where the Dutch national team always seems to have tons of infighting, cliques and players quitting and then unquitting (if that's not a word then it should be).

Wasn't there a racial element involved at one point, too?

I remember one of the black Dutch players scoring for the national team and Bogarde was pushing VDS away when he tried to join the celebration.

I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining it.
 
I agree with cheaper wages. Sneidjer is not injury prone and Modric is only like a year younger. Its not like Modric is 22 and Sneidjer is 27. Modric turns 26 in September and Sneidjer turned 27 in June. Plus don't even get me started on the nominations and awards Sneidjer has over Modric.

I could argue that Sneijder will have a positional conflict with Rooney, while Modric is a perfect fit in the United system with Rooney & Chicha.

Can you show me a system in which United can play with Rooney, Chicha & Sneijder without losing our width & without compromising on our defence.
 
I don't think that Premier League proven is really that big an issue when you have won the Champions League where you were man of the match, the domestic league in 2 different leagues with 2 different styles of play, lead your team to the final of a World Cup, being voted the second best player at the World Cup and the joint top goalscorer.

You're kind of football proven by then.

He's not an unknown player, we all know what he's capable of. No player is PL proven before they come here, but we still keep buying them because they all know how to play football.

I am not questioning Sneijder's ability as a footballer. But questioning his ability to adapt to the physicality of the PL. If we buy him for £35m & give him a huge wage packet, we cannot afford for him to take his time to adjust to the PL. I genuinely doubt he will ever be able to adjust to the PL. He will be like Arjen Robben at Chelsea, genuinely talented but not able to showcase it in England.
 
I could argue that Sneijder will have a positional conflict with Rooney, while Modric is a perfect fit in the United system with Rooney & Chicha.

Can you show me a system in which United can play with Rooney, Chicha & Sneijder without losing our width & without compromising on our defence.

How many times do I have to do this?

There is no guarantee Chica and Rooney will be available. Maybe they are injured and no one is going to die if Hernandez comes of the bench in a big game.

Hernandez

Young/Nani-----------Rooney-----------Valencia

Sneidjer-------------Carrick

Evra--------Rio----------Vidic----------Rafael​


Here is a system with Hernandez coming of the bench.

Rooney

Young/Nani--------Sneidjer--------Valencia

Anderson/Fletcher----------Carrick

Evra---------Rio---------Vidic---------Rafael​


This system will be the least common among the three.

Hernandez

Rooney------------Sneijder-----------Valencia/Nani

Anderson/Fletcher------------Carrick

Evra---------Rio---------Vidic----------Rafael​
 
Number 1 compromises our defence, number 2 doesn't have Hernandez and number 3 sacrifices our width.

Try again.
 
In your first line up - Modric is probably a lot better suited.

In your second line up - not sure what it is - you've either got 3 CM or 3 Wingers? Same goes with the 3rd line up.

There is no doubting Sneijder's quality but, also no arguing that Sneijder and Rooney role would clash a lot more while Modric fits nicely in how we play most of our games with 2 strikers, 2 wingers and 2 CM.

I don't think there is much between any of the 3 we are linked with but, Modric is probably the best fit but, also probably the least attainable. Sneijder is the best option because Inter will sell if we make a proper offer and he's a CM. Nasri on the other hand is probably the cheapest and maybe even most attainable but, doesn't fit into a more every game situation like the other two would.

Modric also brings a lot less hoopla with him, which again is something the boss likes. No Yolanthe is a big plus.

Anyway - don't think we'll be seeing either of the two in our CM this season but, that's okay. I expect Anderson to take his chance - he's got the ability to be as good if not better than any of the guys we are linked to and we already have him on our books.
 
In your first line up - Modric is probably a lot better suited.

When you are versatile, it is not that difficult to switch to a new position. Instead of playing attacking mid, you are playing central mid and it is not like he has never played in that position.

In your second line up - not sure what it is - you've either got 3 CM or 3 Wingers? Same goes with the 3rd line up.

Hmmm....

So you have never seen Rooney, two wingers and three central midfielders play together?
 
How many times do I have to do this?

There is no guarantee Chica and Rooney will be available. Maybe they are injured and no one is going to die if Hernandez comes of the bench in a big game.

Hernandez

Young/Nani-----------Rooney-----------Valencia

Sneidjer-------------Carrick

Evra--------Rio----------Vidic----------Rafael​


Here is a system with Hernandez coming of the bench.

Rooney

Young/Nani--------Sneidjer--------Valencia

Anderson/Fletcher----------Carrick

Evra---------Rio---------Vidic---------Rafael​


This system will be the least common among the three.

Hernandez

Rooney------------Sneijder-----------Valencia/Nani

Anderson/Fletcher------------Carrick

Evra---------Rio---------Vidic----------Rafael​


Number 1 compromises our defence, number 2 doesn't have Hernandez and number 3 sacrifices our width.

Try again.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing.
 
Hmmm....

So you have never seen Rooney, two wingers and three central midfielders play together?

Your 2nd line up shows either Young or Nani and either Fletcher or Anderson, so either a player short or that you could be playing 2 CM with 3 wingers along Sneijder and Rooney. So was questioning what your line up option was trying to illustrate.
 
I could argue that Sneijder will have a positional conflict with Rooney, while Modric is a perfect fit in the United system with Rooney & Chicha.

Can you show me a system in which United can play with Rooney, Chicha & Sneijder without losing our width & without compromising on our defence.

There's no system with Rooney AND Hernández which doesn't compromise on our defending. Unless we get a 28-year-old Roy Keane next to Carrick. Which we won't.

Is having Sneijder there worse than playing Giggs in the same position?
 
Your 2nd line up shows either Young or Nani and either Fletcher or Anderson, so either a player short or that you could be playing 2 CM with 3 wingers along Sneijder and Rooney. So was questioning what your line up option was trying to illustrate.

Its Rooney and Sneidjer with Valencia on the right and either Young or Nani on the left wing. The one who is in form will get picked. And behind Sniejder its going to be Carrick for sure with either Anderson or Fletcher. Whats confusing about that?

Its a striker, two wingers and three central midfielders. Its basically like playing:

Rooney

Nani---------------------------------------Valencia

Anderson-----Sneidjer--------Carrick​
 
There's no system with Rooney AND Hernández which doesn't compromise on our defending. Unless we get a 28-year-old Roy Keane next to Carrick. Which we won't.

Is having Sneijder there worse than playing Giggs in the same position?

Giggs can sometimes be slack in his positioning but, will work his socks of to get the ball back. That yellow he got this pre-season for winning the ball back and getting called for a foul for it shows you his determination. Not sure Sneijder would ever work that hard. Modric I think also is better on the defensive side.

The one thing I think we can be sure of is if we go into any game against a top side, maybe not even a top side but, a good side and they play 3 CM and we just go with 2 CM and Rooney/Herndandez, if Rooney doesn't play a lot more like a traditional CM, we will lose the CM battle. I don't know even if a Keane can make up in today's game for the extra man advantage when going 2 versus a decent 3 CM.
 
There's no system with Rooney AND Hernández which doesn't compromise on our defending. Unless we get a 28-year-old Roy Keane next to Carrick. Which we won't.

Is having Sneijder there worse than playing Giggs in the same position?

Hernandez

Young/Nani-----------Rooney-----------Valencia

Modric-------------Carrick

Evra--------Rio----------Vidic----------Rafael​

This does not compromise on the defence. Carrick's constant presence along with Modric assisting will be a good cover defensively. Valencia also digs back when he has to.
 
OK, why do you assume that Sneijder wouldn't do as good a job defensively as Modric?

The guy just about ran himself into the ground when they beat Barcelona in 2010, saying he lacks the workrate is stupid - he just needs the right manager. And we have that, right?

Moot point though: we definitely won't sign Modric and we're very unlikely to sign Sneijder.
 
OK, why do you assume that Sneijder wouldn't do as good a job defensively as Modric?

The guy just about ran himself into the ground when they beat Barcelona in 2010, saying he lacks the workrate is stupid - he just needs the right manager. And we have that, right?

Moot point though: we definitely won't sign Modric and we're very unlikely to sign Sneijder.

Because it would be a waste to get a player of Sneijder's ability for £35million and then restraining him with defensive duties.

The example you have given is of him having any defensive role was in two matches of his entire career. Its like saying Sunderland should play O'Shea in goal. And even then for Inter (against Barca) Mourinho made the whole team defend except for Sneijder and one striker. In a team only defending Sneijder still had the least defensive responsibilities.
 
Sneijder can and has played as a normal CM before, in fact he's played that role in pre-season too and his defending leaves us no more exposed than Giggs or Scholes.
 
Because it would be a waste to get a player of Sneijder's ability for £35million and then restraining him with defensive duties.

The example you have given is of him having any defensive role was in two matches of his entire career. Its like saying Sunderland should play O'Shea in goal. And even then for Inter (against Barca) Mourinho made the whole team defend except for Sneijder and one striker. In a team only defending Sneijder still had the least defensive responsibilities.

And it wouldn't be a waste to get Modric for a similar amount? Or do you say he's less talented, therefore it's not a waste to restrain him with defensive duties? Or what? I can't really see your point.

As Ekeke points out, Sneijder has played as a normal CM before and he has all the skills for it. Can't see why couldn't he do it. And we shouldn't play 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 against the best teams anyway.
 
And it wouldn't be a waste to get Modric for a similar amount? Or do you say he's less talented, therefore it's not a waste to restrain him with defensive duties? Or what? I can't really see your point.

As Ekeke points out, Sneijder has played as a normal CM before and he has all the skills for it. Can't see why couldn't he do it. And we shouldn't play 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 against the best teams anyway.

I feel Modric is just as creative as Sneijder but is better defensively, only thing People keep saying as if its a fact that Sneijder is better attacking wise then Modric but in the past three season Modric has scored 12 times while Sneijder only 17 times which not a lot more. Sneijder is just rated higher than him because of his national team.

Besides if Sneijder ever plays in the PL he will never play the whole season as he would be injured a lot. Modric on the other hand has proven despite his tiny physique can still cope with the physicality of the PL.
 
I feel Modric is just as creative as Sneijder but is better defensively, only thing People keep saying as if its a fact that Sneijder is better attacking wise then Modric but in the past three season Modric has scored 12 times while Sneijder only 17 times which not a lot more. Sneijder is just rated higher than him because of his national team.

Besides if Sneijder ever plays in the PL he will never play the whole season as he would be injured a lot. Modric on the other hand has proven despite his tiny physique can still cope with the physicality of the PL.

Modric played two of those seasons on the wing.
 
There's no guarantee with any player ever from outside the league so should we stop buying them?

You've got unknown players that you don't know how they will adapt, which is fine to say about the league because you've got little to go on, they've played maybe a few games in their own league and you don't know much about them etc, or on the other hand you've got a world class player who has adapted to multiple leagues and won top honors in each as well as performed on the international stage which proves the lad knows how to kick a ball around the pitch, PL or MLS. I'm sure that when it comes to buying the top talents abroad, SAF doesn't stop and say 'wait, don't do anything yet, feck I've just remembered, he's not played in the PL before, what the hell do we do now...'

You know full well that isn't what I was implying. I just thought you'd gone off on one about all the stuff that Sneijder had won and somehow come to the conclusion that he was guaranteed as a footballer, which is naive to think. Just thought I'd point out that what he'd won abroad was pretty irrelevant and that he's not been a success everywhere.
 
What does Berbatov have to do with it? Every player's situation is different. I don't know why Fergie was so desperate to land Berbatov three years ago, but I bet if he could turn back time he'd have passed. Also, Man City after getting bought by oil rich sheikh at the end of August 2008 started making huge bids for every big name out there in the last hours of the window and forced United to overpay.

Of course you can name some ridiculous price and keep Modric. Good luck trying to convince any of your current talent or any newcomers to commit to the club long term after this.

You're right, every situation is different and in this situation, we're in a far stronger situation than we were with Berbatov.

Its hilarious how, in your eyes, we're the big bad villains here. Like I said before, players won't give the slightest care to how past players were treated. The Croatians who started following us after the influx of Croatians all agree that Modric is a particularly stupid man whose agent wields an extraordinary degree of influence over his decisions. The feeling seems to be that Modric isn't actually a particularly big player in this. I can't imagine that too many players are all that more intelligent to be honest. The players and agents will follow the opportunity and more importantly the money, just as they have done since the game became aflow with TV and rich man money.

But, going by your ideas, I fail to see why current players or newcomers would agree to sign long term deals when we sell our best players at the first sign of another team coming in, take five steps back when we take 2 forward and fail to adequately replace these players whenever we sell them.
 
If you are going to spout inflation as a way to determine how much a player is worth, you are down right desperate. Modric at around 35m is about right regardless if we bought Berba from Spurs for 30.75m. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other, especially 3 years on. When selling O'Hara, did Spurs consider how much Berba went for in determining his price? Doubtful.

One thing though from the Berba sale Spurs should look at is the fact they let the transfer go till the last day and then screw themselves going into the season, without a replacement. Harry keeps going on about needing to buy quality to match Spurs ambitions but, then has said he needs to sell in order to buy. Well they aren't selling anyone or at least no one is bidding. We are close to end of August and Spurs haven't made any significant moves, especially in the two areas that they need the most - Striker/CB.

If Spurs go into the season not having strengthened then not only do you have an unsettled Modric but, also then will be looking at having an unhappy Bale going into next season. Having 35m to strengthen plus offload a player that has his heart set elsewhere gone outweighs any moral victory of curbing player power Spurs might get from keeping Modric.

I think h'e referring to the ridiculous inflation of transfer fees in football and especially the premiership. 10 years ago, 41 million bought you the best player in the world. Now it buys you Sergio Aguero. Or Berbatov/Robinho with 10 million to spare. Or Carroll with 5 to spare. Transfer fees have shot up, players are rarely bought for what they're worth any more. Long gone are the days when 100,000 or 1 million or 3 million were huge world record sums.

Not sure how its the same situation seeing as O'Hara is barely even a bench player for us while both Berbatov and Modric were and are the best players in the the team at the time?

Redknapp a) speaks a lot of bull in the media and b) has already outlined what he meant by that comment. Now that Bale and Sandro will be over 21 and Bentley, Keane etc have returned from loan, we now have 30 or so players who require fitting into the 25 man squad. Unlike Man City, its not sensible for us to have 5 of these players mulling around doing nothing and yet picking up huge pay checks. So we need to sell some of the deadwood to free up the space in the 25 man squad.

Can I ask you a very simple question. 35 million, what exactly would Tottenham be picking up for that amount of money in today's market? Especially as our number one priority is a striker (or 2 or 3) who often cost the most? And would they work in our formation? Team Brian GB's suggestion, of offering us their 4th/5th choice striker, who wouldn't even work in a 4-4-1-1, is absolutely laughable.
 
You know full well that isn't what I was implying. I just thought you'd gone off on one about all the stuff that Sneijder had won and somehow come to the conclusion that he was guaranteed as a footballer, which is naive to think. Just thought I'd point out that what he'd won abroad was pretty irrelevant and that he's not been a success everywhere.

I didn't say anywhere that he was guaranteed. I said that being PL proven is irellevant. Clubs sign players from other countries all the time because it's not a huge necessity to be PL proven. Nobody is PL proven until they play their first game. They still know how to play football, and joining a new league is a simple case of learning the style and adapting, they are professional footballers, not plumbers. It's not a strange new world to them, it's just something new to get used to.

What's naive is thinking that someone who has achieved everywhere he has gone, in multiple leagues, we should leave alone because he might flop despite winning at the highest level everywhere he goes. There is more to indicate that he would be a sucess than to suggest he would flop, which is a possibility, but not a reason that should be prominent when deciding whether or not to buy him.
 
You're right, every situation is different and in this situation, we're in a far stronger situation than we were with Berbatov.

Its hilarious how, in your eyes, we're the big bad villains here. Like I said before, players won't give the slightest care to how past players were treated. The Croatians who started following us after the influx of Croatians all agree that Modric is a particularly stupid man whose agent wields an extraordinary degree of influence over his decisions. The feeling seems to be that Modric isn't actually a particularly big player in this. I can't imagine that too many players are all that more intelligent to be honest. The players and agents will follow the opportunity and more importantly the money, just as they have done since the game became aflow with TV and rich man money.

But, going by your ideas, I fail to see why current players or newcomers would agree to sign long term deals when we sell our best players at the first sign of another team coming in, take five steps back when we take 2 forward and fail to adequately replace these players whenever we sell them.

No one said anything about Spurs being villains. I only said other players, whether they're currently with Spurs or your potential targets will look at Modric's situation from the player's perspective and it's not a good sign for them.

Now, if Spurs were a top club, winning trophies regularly and competing with other European giants in the CL each season and paid their best stars top wages, your club stance in this case would have been understandable and justified. But that's not the case though, is it? You either have to reach that level and remain there or you have to deal with reality and cut your losses.

At this point in time an upcoming talent, rightly or wrongly, can only view Tottenham as a stepping stone before moving to a top club. Now they see Modric being told he won't be sold period, and they'll think: "Why would anyone want to join the club that can't satisfy their ambitions and refuse them a chance to do it somewhere else?"
 
the above post is very true. I think players with top talent would see spurs as a fantastic place to play for a few years - before movong on to PL/CL challengers and mega wages.


I can't understand why Spurs don't wanna cash in and let Harry find the next Modric... And a good defender or striker!
 
.... Now they see Modric being told he won't be sold period, and they'll think: "Why would anyone want to join the club that can't satisfy their ambitions and refuse them a chance to do it somewhere else?"
So according to you (i.e. because we've forced Modric to stay), from here onwards Spurs won't be able to attract and sign any "upcoming talent"? :lol:

It sounds to me like you - out of bitterness at the fact that Chelsea have failed to get their way - are desperately trying to convince yourself that Spurs have shot themselves in the foot.
 
Modric shouldn't have signed his life away, it's his own fault. He could have requested a release clause or signed a shorter extension. Spurs are well within their rights to defend their assets.