1pt from Chelsea, Liverpool and City is not good enough IMO.
Moyes So Far!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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He doesn't have any bottle and you can't teach that. I really, really hope I'm wrong but I'm near certain of it.
Negative line-ups, playing for draws, not making changes or trying to go for it when it's going wrong etc.
Negative line-ups, playing for draws, not making changes or trying to go for it when it's going wrong etc.
Failed hugely tonight. No getting around it. Hopefully in time it will prove to be an exception rather then the norm.
Using Fellaini off the main striker when we have Kagawa on the bench left me bemused.
3 challenging games in Chelsea, Liverpool and City and he's not exactly come up smelling of roses has he?
Will people shut the feck up about team selections! Everyone was fecking drooling over our team vs Leverkusen and Kagawa was fecking below average. No way was he starting today, you don't throw unfit players in at this level. The team picked itself based on fitness.
So far 4/10, hard games yes, but you still have to show some competency and he hasn't shown any.
He needs to-
- stop picking Ashley Young
- stop playing centre halves at right back
- stop picking Rio and Vidic every game
- Play our actual footballers more (Kagawa, Nani)
- Drop his grudge against Hernandez
- stop seeing Young and Valencia as "defensive wingers" because it was patently obvious today that they can't actually defend.
He needs to-
- stop picking Ashley Young
- stop playing centre halves at right back
- stop picking Rio and Vidic every game
- Play our actual footballers more (Kagawa, Nani)
- Drop his grudge against Hernandez
- stop seeing Young and Valencia as "defensive wingers" because it was patently obvious today that they can't actually defend.
3 of our main rival City! Arsenal Chelsea or Spurs not feeling like champions to me!
I said at the start of the season that judging by his interviews and lineups he seems to be overwhelemed by being here. I still maintain that.
Well, that was an ugly one. Still, fine margins. End of the first and beginning of the second half was like a bad dream, really. It happens. Not saying we weren't poor but the score could easily have been less ugly.
Perspective is needed here. It was always a difficult match, as was Liverpool away, as was Chelsea at home. Sounds almost like some expected us to stroll past 'em, playing champagne football as we went along. Not likely. Losing RVP on the day didn't help either.
We took a beating, fair and square. The important thing now is that Moyes learns from it. Nobody said this would be a walk in the park. This is it: Time to start working for real, Dave.
Perspective is needed here. It was always a difficult match, as was Liverpool away, as was Chelsea at home. Sounds almost like some expected us to stroll past 'em, playing champagne football as we went along. Not likely. Losing RVP on the day didn't help either.
We took a beating, fair and square. The important thing now is that Moyes learns from it. Nobody said this would be a walk in the park. This is it: Time to start working for real, Dave.
If he has told our players to go out there and stand around like starched farts when we're in possession then he deserves all the blame.
Look, I'm a huge Kagawa fan. Loved watching him when he was in Germany. But was pushed off the ball over and over last game and he looks not fit enough yet. Certainly not fit enough to start two games back to back.
The guy needs to be given plenty of time but it's been a poor start and today's performance was a very concerning one. Some of his selections have been terrible. He needs to simply stop persisting in Young out wide. Maybe Nani and Kagawa aren't match fit, but they simply need games to get more match fit and they'll do a lot better than Young and Valencia. Some say Moyes prefers defensive, hard workers, but Young and Valencia have been fairly useless in both departments and haven't offered enough.
Fellaini's signing isn't covering him in glory either. For £27m, he looked so out of his depth today. He was brought in to play a defensive role in midfield and add some extra steel, but he was ripped apart by Toure today. Toure may have been incredible, but even then Fellaini just looked so poor and out of his depth. Will he improve? I'm sure he will. Is he ever going to be good enough to be a top first teamer and justify his price tag? I'm really doubting that and it's a bit worrying that Moyes brought him in as our 'big' signing to really improve the team. We needed a creative, top quality midfield. We didn't get one and today we paid for it.
We're just too defensive in these big games too. We had some of these problems before, but they've been worse this season. I know it's a cliche but this side today really didn't look like one that had any confidence in trying to win. Our opponents just looked a lot better all over and it's been a long time since we looked that poor. The problem with defence is that while we expected Moyes to forge a solid defence, today we looked so shaky and exposed at the back. Not only are we not creating enough in these big games, but we're now not solid enough at the back either.
Overall, I still think we'll comfortably get top 4. We'll challenge for the title and improve, and Moyes does need time. What is worrying though is that a lot of the problems are ones people were laughed at for predicting back when Moyes first came, and ones that became obvious weeks ago. He needs a lot more time until we can judge him properly, but I can understand why people are worried after today.
Fellaini's signing isn't covering him in glory either. For £27m, he looked so out of his depth today. He was brought in to play a defensive role in midfield and add some extra steel, but he was ripped apart by Toure today. Toure may have been incredible, but even then Fellaini just looked so poor and out of his depth. Will he improve? I'm sure he will. Is he ever going to be good enough to be a top first teamer and justify his price tag? I'm really doubting that and it's a bit worrying that Moyes brought him in as our 'big' signing to really improve the team. We needed a creative, top quality midfield. We didn't get one and today we paid for it.
We're just too defensive in these big games too. We had some of these problems before, but they've been worse this season. I know it's a cliche but this side today really didn't look like one that had any confidence in trying to win. Our opponents just looked a lot better all over and it's been a long time since we looked that poor. The problem with defence is that while we expected Moyes to forge a solid defence, today we looked so shaky and exposed at the back. Not only are we not creating enough in these big games, but we're now not solid enough at the back either.
Overall, I still think we'll comfortably get top 4. We'll challenge for the title and improve, and Moyes does need time. What is worrying though is that a lot of the problems are ones people were laughed at for predicting back when Moyes first came, and ones that became obvious weeks ago. He needs a lot more time until we can judge him properly, but I can understand why people are worried after today.
Hence it would have made sense to give him some playing time when the game was over as a contest.
God knows what his HT talk must have been "you're doing well I thought we'd be 4 down at this stage"
I just feel in the big games this season hes been far to defensive and been happy to sit with what hes got rather than go for it. Look at the line up against Liverpool, the toothless display vs Chelsea and then todays performance. Hell even against Palace we didn't look like scoring until we they were down to 10. He clearly looks like hes drawing from the Everton mentality of i'll set out to contain teams rather than beat them and that's what scares me
2011-2012: 15 points (5/0/0 - +17 GD)
1993-1994: 13 points (4/1/0 - +8 GD)
1997-1998: 13 points (4/1/0 - +8 GD)
1999-2000: 13 points (4/1/0 - +8 GD)
2006-2007: 12 points (4/0/1 - +8 GD)
2009-2010: 12 points (4/0/1 - +8 GD)
2003-2004: 12 points (4/0/1 - +7 GD)
2012-2013: 12 points (4/0/1 - +6 GD)
1995-1996: 12 points (4/0/1 - +3 GD)
2000-2001: 11 points (3/2/0 - +11 GD)
2010-2011: 11 points (3/2/0 - +7 GD)
2005-2006: 11 points (3/2/0 - +5 GD)
1994-1995: 10 points (3/1/1 - +5 GD)
1996-1997: 9 points (2/3/0 - +7 GD)
2001-2002: 8 points (2/2/1 - +3 GD)
2008-2009: 8 points (2/2/1 - +2 GD)
1998-1999: 8 points (2/2/1 - +2 GD)
2002-2003: 8 points (2/2/1 - +1 GD)
2007-2008: 8 points (2/2/1 - +1 GD)
2013-2014: 7 points (2/1/2 - +1 GD)
1992-1993: 7 points (2/1/2 - -1 GD)
2004-2005: 6 points (1/3/1 - 0 GD)
Some of you, get a fecking grip. We lost 4-1 against a driven City, we weren't driven. How many times have we looked flat under Fergie against City since they have had that Sheikh money rolling in? 6-1 at home, 1-0 when Kompany headed the winner? And then think of the other big team performances last year? Our record vs Chelsea in all comps was 1-1-3, lost against City, and didn't win against Spurs. He's come into one of the biggest clubs in the world without a strong backing in transfers this summer, and he has been given a horrendous opening fixture list. We drew against a super defensive Chelsea, lost against Liverpool away which had a good 2nd half performance, and had a 4-1 drumming against City where we had chances, but players wasted their opportunities amazingly. Judge Moyes at the end of the season, where he has worked out a successful formula for this team, and when he has been against all the big teams both at home and away. I'm annoyed at today, but I'm not being a little bitch like some of you here (yes you know exactly who you are) and spouting shit like we will be lucky to get in the top 4). We have the two best strikers in the league, still one of the top defenses in the league and these are all title winning players. Even if we don't win it this year we will be fighting very close towards it, which I will accept as a positive for a new managers first year at United.
First 6 games in 2002/03, 8 points. We won the league.
Moyes will be interviewed shortly...
Moyes looks out of his depth so far. The question is can he adapt to being a united manager fast enough to give himself more than 2 seasons in the job ?
Stop talking rubbish about fitness. They wouldn't be on the bench if they weren't fit. We had fit players that weren't on the bench. Büttner was there as well.
Kagawa understandably didn't start but why Nani didn't start or feature at all for that matter is a puzzle.
Think about what you're saying. You're saying he chose to have three players on the bench that aren't fit. Why on Earth would he do that?
I know.
I was disappointed he didn't make changes at the beginning of the second half, also picking Young is just criminal, he wouldn't get in to the Everton side!!!
Also, it is clearly evident we need an attacking midfielder as the Carrick/Fellaini combo is too one dimensional.
Also, it is clearly evident we need an attacking midfielder as the Carrick/Fellaini combo is too one dimensional.
He once again did his "not convinced the balls came out that way" bit with regards to our fixtures.
I don't think they were the issue, what they need is people making different runs. Playing with Valencia and Young doesn't compliment them at all because they make very static/rigid movements and are reliant on where they get the ball. Once we changed it so you had more movement in clev and welbeck coming inside Carrick could really use his range more and there was much more in the attack.
He's been disappointing so far. Too negative in his tactics and selections and the results haven't been surprising really. Only has himself to blame for us picking up just 1 point from the 3 games against Chelsea, Liverpool and now city.
He definitely wasn't my first choice to replace sir Alex as I feared he'd be out of his depth, but we need to stick by him for this season at the very least though. Only way I'd start to turn on him is if it looks like we aren't getting top 4. Only then would it be time for him to be sacked. Don't think it'll come to that though.
He definitely wasn't my first choice to replace sir Alex as I feared he'd be out of his depth, but we need to stick by him for this season at the very least though. Only way I'd start to turn on him is if it looks like we aren't getting top 4. Only then would it be time for him to be sacked. Don't think it'll come to that though.
Poor excuse, even though he may be right. We could've played City in December and been blown away with a performance like today.
kps88 post: 14245841 said:
Once again he's coming up with excuses. From starting only in july during the transfer window to this, all excuses.
Says it like it is, said we were just not good enough.
It's a terrible excuse and I wish he didn't keep mentioning it. Sends out such a negative message as well.
It's pretty standard for us. And we've won the league many times with that record in the corresponding fixtures.
still think he is the right man for the job. But we will have to put up with stuff like this now and then. Today showed how much we depend on Rooney and RVP.
This was worse than the 6-1 loss. At least the 6-1 happened because they put up a fight a man down. I remember seeing Fletch score to make it 3-1 and then United went for it. It didn't pan out and the result was 6-1 but goals 4, 5, and 6 came about because they were throwing what they could at them. This was toothless, spineless, gutless....I can't use a single decent adjective to describe the shower of shit that was our performance.
Good grief.
Good grief.
It's too early to say anything concrete about him. But I wasn't sure what he was going for with his lineup today. We do not need to play for a draw like Everton would at City, we play EVERY game to win. He is still getting his feet wet and perhaps he didn't want to lose his first derby so he was too cautious, so I won't be too harsh. We are lacking creativity, same problem as last year. But we had RVP in amazing form the first half of the season and Rooney chipped in the second half, we ground out games and won the league. Also we had Sir Alex, let's see how it goes lads, give him time.
Scared. Scared to take risks. Playing the big games, City and Liverpool, with an eye on getting a draw not getting a win. Needs to get rid of his mid-table mindset that getting points from these games is a bonus not a must. Needs to stop complaining about it being a tough start. To be the best you gotta beat the best. Nobody wants him to fail but Moyes needs to have the guts to risk failure if we're gonna succeed. 3-0 down at Stamford Bridge 2 seasons ago and the Boss brings on Hernandez, plays 3 strikers and comes away with a 3-3. Does David Moyes make that sub? Does he gamble or does he give up? Based on today he gives up and that worries me. I look forward to the day I can say Moyes is a risk taker.
This!
Same when Liverpool bet us 4-1...We put it up to the opposition and fought till the end.
Today and at Anfield, it's been laughable
Even though I wasn't happy with his substitutions today I think a lot of the problems we saw today plagued us pretty much already over the last two years. Lack of creativity. Lack of movement between the lines and off the ball. Lack of through balls. Lack of wing play. Lack of aggressive closing down. That all was nothing new and things that were festering in this team for quite a while so it will take time for Moyes to actually get rid of this behavior.
It's also quite evident that the current lineup, especially the 3 behind the striker lack quality. While I think Rooney is doing a good job atm he is not a real number 10 and it always shows when we are in attack and basically 4 of our players are in one line waiting for the long ball passed in behind the defense which means non of them is actually available for the build up of our game.
I think our squad needs a lot of improvements in the coming transfer windows especially on the wide positions, defense and offense and real creative source in midfield either in the deeper position and the AMC position.
It's also quite evident that the current lineup, especially the 3 behind the striker lack quality. While I think Rooney is doing a good job atm he is not a real number 10 and it always shows when we are in attack and basically 4 of our players are in one line waiting for the long ball passed in behind the defense which means non of them is actually available for the build up of our game.
I think our squad needs a lot of improvements in the coming transfer windows especially on the wide positions, defense and offense and real creative source in midfield either in the deeper position and the AMC position.
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