Moyes So Far!

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Theon said:
I agree with everything you say.. but the discussion is about coming 5th for feck sake.

I'm all for patience with Moyes and was advocating hiring him before Ferguson retired, so very firmly in the pro-Moyes camp - but there reaches a point where everything you just said doesn't apply and it ceases to be a case of someone needing time and becomes one of someone simply not being up to the job. Coming 5th with this team would be firmly in the latter category.

It will never happen because Moyes is a very good manager, so this whole thing is completely hypothetical (and pointless).
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Aye, I think we're getting a bit side tracked with this 5th business. I say let's cross that bridge IF we ever get there.
 
Theon said:
I agree with everything you say.. but the discussion is about coming 5th for feck sake.

I'm all for patience with Moyes and was advocating hiring him before Ferguson retired, so very firmly in the pro-Moyes camp - but there reaches a point where everything you just said doesn't apply and it ceases to be a case of someone needing time and becomes one of someone simply not being up to the job. Coming 5th with this team would be firmly in the latter category.

It will never happen because Moyes is a very good manager, so this whole thing is completely hypothetical (and pointless).
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Basically if Moyes can average what an 8th/7th league position with Everton to think he could get the team that won the league easily, albeit if competitors, and can't get them to finish in the top 4 then it's an underachievement on his part let alone the club.
 
mickeza said:
If this is aimed at me then I always wanted Moyes to be manager, my problem is I think you're doing both him and our squad a disservice with your talk about top four. I also haven't seen anyone on here demanding that he win the title, most people seem perfectly happy with a top four finish, so unless finishing above Tottenham is demanding the highest standards then that simply isn't true. I mean Tottenham Pogue, Tottenham.
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Indeed, this is the crux of it. Those who believe we might actually slip out of the top four basically say that Moyes is not good enough, not up to the job. Like Glaston does. But at least he says so, doesn't dress it up as if he was actually supporting Moyes by saying he might get us out of the top four.
 
Win tonight, and it'll springboard us into a nice run of fixtures where we can right the wrong.

Lose tonight, and confidence will be pretty low.
 
Eyepopper said:
You want to go down the Madrid route when it comes to managers?
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No. Madrid sacked Del Bosque after he won La Liga, for God's sake.

But all this long term project stuff is bunk. Most managers get their jobs after their predecessor is sacked for lack of success. There's usually a big job to be done - major changes to be made. Resources are often limited.

None of these things are true in our case. DM should be held to a higher standard. He's the new boss of a successful enterprise, and nothing less than continued success should be acceptable. Struggling to make the top 4 for the next 3 years, say, while DM 'finds his feet', 'gets to know the players', 'puts his own stamp' on the club, 'gets in players who fit his managerial philosophy' etc. is setting the bar too low.

No one wants a managerial merry go round like Real Madrid. I personally believe we do have to lower expectations after Fergie - we can't expect to dominate in the future as we have in the past. SAF was sui generis. But, equally, there's no reason for us to become Arsenal, or, horror of horrors, Liverpool.
 
An Irish Red said:
Why would anyone be happy if we, as defending champions, scraped into the top four?

This lowering of standards among fans is worrying. Getting fourth would be an absolutely disastrous season.
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This all the way. A strong title challenge is the very least that should be expected this season.....from defending champions. Top four what the feckity feck is that? If that is a general feeling then it stinks.

Standards cannot be lowered because David Moyes is in charge. If Mourinho was in the hotseat people would be expecting us to win the league easily and become an immediate force in Europe. Moyes must maintain the intensity and the expectation. I don't mean to be harsh on him but some of the comments he has made so far indicate he is trying to dampen expectation.....that is not going to happen after 20 years of unparallelled success.
 
Even though it's the league cup, that will do Moyes the world of good. Pleased for him.
 
His body language was much better today, looked like he meant business. You can tell he's still feeling a little overwhelmed at times but there was an edge to the way he reacted to the win at the final whistle.
 
Cracked out the "that's what they tell me about him" about Hernandez. I don't understand why he keeps saying that he doesn't know the team, he should know the majority of the senior players.
 
Ash_G said:
Cracked out the "that's what they tell me about him" about Hernandez. I don't understand why he keeps saying that he doesn't know the team, he should know the majority of the senior players.
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Yeah I found that a bit wierd.
 
datura said:
He wanted to rest Carrick and Fellaini cup tied so Jones is the only defensive mid we have. I think Anderson would be disappointed that Giggs selected in front of him though.
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Moyes has probably already reached the stage where he doesn't need people telling him about Anderson. He's seen enough.
 
Ash_G said:
Cracked out the "that's what they tell me about him" about Hernandez. I don't understand why he keeps saying that he doesn't know the team, he should know the majority of the senior players.
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Yeah I'm finding that a bit odd too. Hernandez has a great record against Everton too, so surely Moyes had an idea what he is all about.
 
Ash_G said:
Cracked out the "that's what they tell me about him" about Hernandez. I don't understand why he keeps saying that he doesn't know the team, he should know the majority of the senior players.
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I'm getting slightly concerned at this comment he keeps making. He's been here 3 months, that's enough time to get a good understanding of the players.

It's a minor thing but I wish he was more confident and said 'we all know Hernandez has good movement...' rather than suggest he's still getting to know players.
 
Eyepopper said:
The only pressure he's under is from the media and some fans.

You'd expect if from the media.
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You'd expect it from the fans too. Most of the criticism Moyes has taken for performances, results and team selections would've been directed at SAF too in a similar situation. He was regularly slaughtered for his decisions on here and he was our greatest ever manager. People are just more sensitive to any criticism Moyes gets, it hasn't been that bad. Not like half the caf is calling for his head, the concerns expressed are mostly fair and rational.
 
Good win. Fair run for several players who needed it. Thought Kagawa did well, Nani less so - but the idea, having them flanking Rooney, changing sides, is the right one. I hope he now sticks to roughly this formation and gets more and more players tuned up properly.
 
Ash_G said:
Cracked out the "that's what they tell me about him" about Hernandez. I don't understand why he keeps saying that he doesn't know the team, he should know the majority of the senior players.
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It is very strange I must admit, it's like he's just arrived from Mars, every football fan in the Country knows Hernandez's movement is brilliant.

Anyway, good result, he gave the fringe players some game time, Nani looked sharp, all in all a good night.
 
ha_rooney said:
I'm getting slightly concerned at this comment he keeps making. He's been here 3 months, that's enough time to get a good understanding of the players.

It's a minor thing but I wish he was more confident and said 'we all know Hernandez has good movement...' rather than suggest he's still getting to know players.
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It's not even having been here at the club, he's been managing against these players and just generally been involved in British football for ages. I could understand if it were more about not knowing how good they are but his comments come across like he's come to some team he's never seen before.
 
Jesus Christ. We win in the cup against Liverpool with a much improved performance and some of you pricks are in here complaining about a nothing comment he made that was nothing more than a way of expressing agreement.

Get a grip.
 
Ya know. You'd think he'd remember this:

 
ha_rooney said:
I'm getting slightly concerned at this comment he keeps making. He's been here 3 months, that's enough time to get a good understanding of the players.

It's a minor thing but I wish he was more confident and said 'we all know Hernandez has good movement...' rather than suggest he's still getting to know players.
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Thats not enough time at all. 3 months to get to know the abilities, character and personality of the entire squad and reserves etc. In 3 months he wont have seen all the players at their best and worst. he wont have seen how some react under pressure or when they are lacking confidence or brimming with confidence. its simply not that long an amount of time to see it all. You are dreaming if you think it just takes 3 months for a new manager to get to grips with everything involved at a juggernaut such as Man utd.
 
He'll turn it around, I'm confident enough about that. I also understand his cautious/pragmatic/negative (delete according to your personal stance) approach to the 'bigger' games this season, but I imagine that will dissipate as the season goes on.

I reckon this thread will be effusing unheralded praise in his direction come the New Year. He and the playing staff will have built up a good element of trust by that stage, and our prominent attacking players should all be match fit and 'bedded in' by then.
 
sullydnl said:
You'd expect it from the fans too. Most of the criticism Moyes has taken for performances, results and team selections would've been directed at SAF too in a similar situation. He was regularly slaughtered for his decisions on here and he was our greatest ever manager. People are just more sensitive to any criticism Moyes gets, it hasn't been that bad. Not like half the caf is calling for his head, the concerns expressed are mostly fair and rational.
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See, I think he deserves a bit of breathing space. I don't really see any point in being overly critical at this stage.

But yeah, I've spent a bit of time in the newbies today, the reaction down there is a bit more melodramtic.
 
Kid Cunto said:
Still hasn't beaten a big team, which is worrying.
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8 or 9 games in and he has played 2 "big teams" right at the beginning and he hasnt had any time to get settled and get his systems in place and get the team to be his team. Worrying????? for fecks sake. fecking drama queens
 
Stack said:
8 or 9 games in and he has played 2 "big teams" right at the beginning and he hasnt had any time to get settled and get his systems in place and get the team to be his team. Worrying????? for fecks sake. fecking drama queens
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Played two big teams, drew at home and lost away. Hardly horrific.
 
Stack said:
8 or 9 games in and he has played 2 "big teams" right at the beginning and he hasnt had any time to get settled and get his systems in place and get the team to be his team. Worrying????? for fecks sake. fecking drama queens
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The irony here.
 
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