Russia Discussion

Raoul said:
Why one earth would anything Putin say be taken seriously given that he's already exposed himself as a highly accomplished liar (example: No russian troops in Crimea, then admitting Russian troops were in Crimea after it was annexed). His word is as about as good as the current value of the ruble.
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Every politician lies. Some are just able to get away with more than others. Like George Bush, for example. If we're talking about justice, he should have been prosecuted for the Iraq war alone.
 
Raoul said:
From the newbs....

This Frontline Documentary basically lays out Putin's life on a plate. Well worth a watch from beginning to end.....especially Sergey Kolesnikov's bit at 38:35.

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The Schröder bit was very interesting. German politicians have often been and are still soft towards Russia, ignoring their major issues.
 
Sir Matt said:
The Schröder bit was very interesting. German politicians have often been and are still soft towards Russia, ignoring their major issues.
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Shroeder's role was a bit breathtaking. Almost as if he was a Russian oligarch and not the Chancellor of Germany. Luckily Merkel seems to have her head screwed on a bit more properly.
 
schröder is almost a russian oligarch. He is gets paid by gazprom (nordstream) and Rosneft (TNK-BP). He was already bribed, while being German chancellor, which is fairly shocking.
 
By the way, Ukrainian president owns, among other things, confectionery corporation Roshen which still has one of its factories in Lipetsk, Russia and last I checked, was doing well and even expanding. Russian supermarkets are filled with Roshen production.

This is just a drop in the ocean. Many Ukrainian businesses, big and small, have close ties with Russia and continue making money with their Russian counterparts.
 
antihenry said:
By the way, Ukrainian president owns, among other things, confectionery corporation Roshen which still has one of its factories in Lipetsk, Russia and last I checked, was doing well and even expanding. Russian supermarkets are filled with Roshen production.

This is just a drop in the ocean. Many Ukrainian businesses, big and small, have close ties with Russia and continue making money with their Russian counterparts.
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.....and that relates to this because...? Ukrainians and Russians share some similarities therefore Ukraine is Russian?

I'm just trying to figure out what you mean and I can only assume that it's something like this based on your previous posts. Sorry if I've got it wrong.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
.....and that relates to this because...? Ukrainians and Russians share some similarities therefore Ukraine is Russian?

I'm just trying to figure out what you mean and I can only assume that it's something like this based on your previous posts. Sorry if I've got it wrong.
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I just meant that this conflict is much more complex and not as cut and dry as the western media tries to present it, as in evil Putin vs noble Ukrainians. You don't find it odd that the Ukrainian president owns a business in the country he calls aggressor and at the same time begs the EU and the US for more money to fight it?

I've already mentioned in this thread little facts like hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing the war zone into....Russia. Strange, isn't it? Shouldn't they run away from the enemy and not towards it? Or how many former Ukrainian officers and soldiers changed their alliance to Russia and remained in Crimea still keeping their jobs and residencies after the annexation. There are plenty more examples of this conflict not fitting the narrative most western media sources stick to.
 
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antihenry said:
I just meant that this conflict is much more complex and not as cut and dry as the western media tries to present it, as in evil Putin vs noble Ukrainians. You don't find it odd that the Ukrainian president owns a business in the country he calls aggressor and at the same time begs the EU and the US for more money to fight it?
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Might be odd that he does not have it up for sale, but up until the aggression started there seemed to be pretty much a good relationship between the two countries.
 
Sir Matt said:
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It always amuses me when I see pictures like that (not in a good way). There are some people who would claim that this all started with a 'western backed coup/revolution' and Russia is just reacting to American plots. Russias 'side' has that and the closest thing the side allegedly supported by NATO, the EU and the US has to armour was a nicked tractor and the closest they had to artillery was a guy swinging a brick on the end of a chain.
 
Sir Matt said:
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I'm sure on the opposite side Ukrainian soldiers are playing yatzee, sipping hot cocoa and exchanging favorite stories from their childhood, completely unaware that those treacherous and insidious separatists are up to no good once again.
 
RAF jets intercept Russian bomber aircraft off Cornwall

Ministry of Defence says Typhoon fighters scrambled to escort planes spotted in international airspace off Cornwall

By Ben Farmer, Defence Correspondent, and Tom Parfitt
19 Feb 2015

Two RAF Typhoon fighters were scrambled on Wednesday evening to escort Russian long range bombers flying off Cornwall, the Ministry of Defence has said.

The Russian Tupolev TU-95 bombers, known as Bears, were picked up in international airspace to the north west of Britain at round 6.30pm and escorted as they flew south, then turned around and flew off north.

The interception of the Bears comes a fortnight after similar aircraft flew into the English Channel, prompting the Government to demand an explanation from the Russian ambassador.

The Ministry of Defence in London said the Typhoons had been scrambled from RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire.

A spokesman said: “RAF Quick Reaction Alert Typhoon fighter aircraft were launched yesterday after Russian aircraft were identified flying close to UK airspace. The Russian planes were escorted by the RAF until they were out of the UK area of interest. At no time did the Russian military aircraft cross into UK sovereign airspace.”

Meanwhile, a television channel owned by Russia's defence ministry broadcast a separate video showing Nato jets including RAF Typhoons flying alongside a Russian bomber. TV Zvezda said one of its correspondents had filmed the footage from inside a Bear bomber. The channel said the Bear had been a neutral zone on the border with Nato airspace when it was intercepted. It was not immediately clear when the video was filmed, but the MoD said it was not the latest incident on Wednesday. The Russian video shows a French Mirage and RAF Typhoons. It also says the Bear was intercepted by German Eurofighters.

As tensions between Nato and Russia have worsened over the Ukraine crisis, Moscow has significantly increased the number of military flights probing Nato airspace. The number of interceptions over the Baltic States trebled last year and Nato members including Britain have stepped up air policing support in the area.

Michael Fallon, the Defence Secretary, told the Telegraph that when Russian aircraft were in the Channel, late last month, "We had to scramble jets very quickly to see them off."

"It’s the first time since the height of the Cold War, it’s the first time that’s happened.

"That just shows you, you need to respond, each time he [Vladimir Putin] does something like that, you need to be ready to respond.”

In a wide-ranging interview, Mr Fallon said there is a “real and present danger” that Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, will launch a campaign of undercover attacks to destabilise the Baltic states on Nato’s eastern flank.

He said he might try to test Nato’s resolve with the same Kremlin-backed subversion used in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ept-Russian-bomber-aircraft-off-Cornwall.html

Putin will target the Baltic next, Defence Secretary warns
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Ahh, typical shite. Interception... really, what do they expect? Do we think that the Russians are going to drop bombs on us? Or do we just like to take any given opportunity to showcase the RAF and whip up a bit of fear/nationalistic fervour.

1. A Russian aircraft cannot be shot down, as it this would lead to war -- nuclear war.
2. The Russians know this, the British know this, as such all of these interceptions are essentially non-events, scarcely worth reporting.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Ahh, typical shite. Interception... really, what do they expect? Do we think that the Russians are going to drop bombs on us? Or do we just like to take any given opportunity to showcase the RAF and whip up a bit of fear/nationalistic fervour.

1. A Russian aircraft cannot be shot down, as it this would lead to war -- nuclear war.
2. The Russians know this, the British know this, as such all of these interceptions are essentially non-events, scarcely worth reporting.
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It's all part of a game, you could even add that there is no reason for Russia to send its bombers that far or that close to the UK. It's all part of a game. They fly near you to let you know they can, you intercept them to let them know you are watching and you can.

The worry being the one time you don't intercept them is the time they actually are trying to get a first strike in. Silly really, but such is the game as it is played and has been played for many decades now.
 
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As predicted, the "Minsk talks" were merely a stalling tactic for Putin to given western leaders the impression he can be dealt with diplomatically, all the while he was probably telling his two rebel leader stooges to keep pressing ahead for places like Mariupol and onwards to a land bridge with Crimea. Once that is accomplished, it will be onwards to other regions of the south.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...backed-rebels-launch-assault-on-Mariupol.html
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Ahh, typical shite. Interception... really, what do they expect? Do we think that the Russians are going to drop bombs on us? Or do we just like to take any given opportunity to showcase the RAF and whip up a bit of fear/nationalistic fervour.

1. A Russian aircraft cannot be shot down, as it this would lead to war -- nuclear war.
2. The Russians know this, the British know this, as such all of these interceptions are essentially non-events, scarcely worth reporting.
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Rather, it is the latest in a string of provocative actionss by Russian forces in and around the jurisdiction of NATO countries. Both the RAF's response and the reporting is reasonable enough i'd have supposed. The fate of MH-17 demonstrated the indifference with which Moscow would look upon such 'accidents'; we daren't risk anything similar resulting from these 'games of Moscow's.


Raoul said:
As predicted, the "Minsk talks" were merely a stalling tactic for Putin to given western leaders the impression he can be dealt with diplomatically, all the while he was probably telling his two rebel leader stooges to keep pressing ahead for places like Mariupol and onwards to a land bridge with Crimea. Once that is accomplished, it will be onwards to other regions of the south.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...backed-rebels-launch-assault-on-Mariupol.html
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What do you think might represent a tipping point for the Western powers? This ceasefire never really got off the ground to begin with, yet the chatter has been pretty mild since that time.
 
Raoul said:
As predicted, the "Minsk talks" were merely a stalling tactic for Putin to given western leaders the impression he can be dealt with diplomatically, all the while he was probably telling his two rebel leader stooges to keep pressing ahead for places like Mariupol and onwards to a land bridge with Crimea. Once that is accomplished, it will be onwards to other regions of the south.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...backed-rebels-launch-assault-on-Mariupol.html
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Maybe the US could start launching strikes from the Navy and with drones but just deny they're doing it. It's what Russia does.
 
Or build a few new bases in Estonia, Latvia, and Romania and have send unmarked troops into Ukraine and deny it.
 
Eboue said:
What was Russia doing over Ireland? I know nothing about planes, it seems like a long distance away… Do they have a base in the area?
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The long-range bombers that were flying out over the Atlantic have lots of range and fly all over as a part of their probing of NATO defenses. They have ships and subs that go down the East Coast and into the Caribbean as well. It's the same reason they fly next to NATO airspace through the North Sea, Baltics, and over the Arctic.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Rather, it is the latest in a string of provocative actionss by Russian forces in and around the jurisdiction of NATO countries. Both the RAF's response and the reporting is reasonable enough i'd have supposed. The fate of MH-17 demonstrated the indifference with which Moscow would look upon such 'accidents'; we daren't risk anything similar resulting from these 'games of Moscow's.




What do you think might represent a tipping point for the Western powers? This ceasefire never really got off the ground to begin with, yet the chatter has been pretty mild since that time.
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It will come soon when Obama, Merkel, Hollande, Cameron and friends realize that negotiations with Putin are not actually real negotiations as they know them, but rather stalling tactics to consolidate Putin's gains, send more weapons in, and begin pushing for more Ukrainian territory. That's why its important that the west consider a massive economic retaliation against Russia immediately. Putin's economy is on the brink and should be nudged over if he keeps it up. At that point, his foreign invasion in Ukraine will be meaningless, as the Russian economy will be completely nuked.
 
Russian tensions could escalate into all-out war, says Nato general

General Sir Adrian Bradshaw, deputy commander of Nato forces in Europe, says Vladimir Putin could try to invade and seize Nato territory

By Ben Farmer, Defence Correspondent
20 Feb 2015

Tensions with Russia could blow up into all-out conflict, posing “an existential threat to our whole being”, Britain’s top general in Nato has warned.

Gen Sir Adrian Bradshaw, deputy commander of Nato forces in Europe, said there was a danger Vladimir Putin could try to use his armies to invade and seize Nato territory, after calculating the alliance would be too afraid of escalating violence to respond.

His comments follow a clash between London and Moscow after the Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, said there was a "real and present danger" Mr Putin could try to destabilise the Baltic states with a campaign of subversion and irregular warfare.

The Kremlin called those comments “absolutely unacceptable".

Sir Adrian, one of the most senior generals in the British Army and a former director of special forces, told the Royal United Services’ Institute there was a danger such a campaign of undercover attacks could paralyse Nato decision making, as members disagreed over how to respond.

Nato commanders fear a campaign of skilful arms-length military action by Russia, which is carefully designed not to trigger the alliance's mutual defence pact.

But he went further and said there was also the danger that Russia would use conventional forces and Soviet-era brinkmanship to seize Nato territory.

He said Russia could use its large forces “not only for intimidation and coercion but potentially to seize Nato territory, after which the threat of escalation might be used to prevent re-establishment of territorial integrity. This use of so called escalation dominance was of course a classic Soviet technique.”

He went on to say that “the threat from Russia together with the risk it brings of a miss-calculation resulting in a strategic conflict, however unlikely we see it as being right now, represents an existential threat to our whole being.”

He said Russia could use its large forces “not only for intimidation and coercion but potentially to seize Nato territory, after which the threat of escalation might be used to prevent re-establishment of territorial integrity. This use of so called escalation dominance was of course a classic Soviet technique.”

He went on to say that “the threat from Russia together with the risk it brings of a miss-calculation resulting in a strategic conflict, however unlikely we see it as being right now, represents an existential threat to our whole being.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nto-all-out-war-says-Gen-Adrian-Bradshaw.html
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Eboue said:
What was Russia doing over Ireland? I know nothing about planes, it seems like a long distance away… Do they have a base in the area?
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The TU-95 is a strategic nuclear bomber so they were probably exercising a nuclear attack on the British Isles. Basically it's a way for Putin to tell the European leaders not to feck with him.
 
I do love the Russian rejection of peacekeepers and that they suggest they would prevent peace. Right.
 
Raoul said:
:lol:

Ukraine must pay for Russian gas sent to rebel areas: Medvedev

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-must-pay-russian-gas-sent-rebel-areas-173837735.html
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Well, if you actually paid attention to the political dialogue over the situation, you'd know that every party engaging in the political debate, and that includes Putin, still considers those territories Ukraine, the difference is their status. What's so funny about the country having to pay for the gas supplied to its citizens?

Then again, since last summer the government in Kiev have robbed millions of Donbass people of their salaries, elderly of their pensions, invalids of their disability pay and on top of it they have been shelling them for several months now, killing thousands and destroying numerous cities and villages. If it weren't for humanitarian convoys from Russia, coming into the war zone non stop, the situation would have been catastrophic. Now they Kiev government shut off the gas supply to these regions and Russia started supplying it through a different route. Considering all of the above, I find it hard to believe Ukraine still considers these people its own citizens, because what they have been doing to the peaceful population of those territories is nothing short of a genocide. But I'm glad you find it amusing.
 
antihenry said:
Well, if you actually paid attention to the political dialogue over the situation, you'd know that every party engaging in the political debate, and that includes Putin, still considers those territories Ukraine, the difference is their status. What's so funny about the country having to pay for the gas supplied to its citizens?

Then again, since last summer the government in Kiev have robbed millions of Donbass people of their salaries, elderly of their pensions, invalids of their disability pay and on top of it they have been shelling them for several months now, killing thousands and destroying numerous cities and villages. If it weren't for humanitarian convoys from Russia, coming into the war zone non stop, the situation would have been catastrophic. Now they Kiev government shut off the gas supply to these regions and Russia started supplying it through a different route. Considering all of the above, I find it hard to believe Ukraine still considers these people its own citizens, because what they have been doing to the peaceful population of those territories is nothing short of a genocide. But I'm glad you find it amusing.
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They're officially recognized as part of Ukraine but everyone knows they are controlled by Putin, which is why its laughable that Putin is attempting to make money off of selling oil to himself. Proper corrupt mafia tactics.
 
Eboue said:
What was Russia doing over Ireland? I know nothing about planes, it seems like a long distance away… Do they have a base in the area?
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As discussed in the other thread, I think we've 2 bases. One in Baldonnel, an outer suburb to the west of Dublin. It shares it with some private companies I believe. Another small one out in the west of Ireland.
 
Eboue said:
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He says most Russians who fight there are in their 40s so they don't have mothers, so there won't be any outcry back home. He also says, no one in Russia would care about Chechens who fight and die there because Russians wouldn't mind Chechens dying.

He also thinks he can defeat Russian army with 20 thousand soldiers. This guy is my hero. If he can voice his views on a subject he knows nothing about while passing off some outlandish fantasies as facts, I can also pose as an expert on pretty much anything. My motto from now on is : if Timothy Snyder can do it, anyone can do it.

Calling this man a retard would be a an insult to retards.
 
antihenry said:
Well, if you actually paid attention to the political dialogue over the situation, you'd know that every party engaging in the political debate, and that includes Putin, still considers those territories Ukraine, the difference is their status. What's so funny about the country having to pay for the gas supplied to its citizens?

Then again, since last summer the government in Kiev have robbed millions of Donbass people of their salaries, elderly of their pensions, invalids of their disability pay and on top of it they have been shelling them for several months now, killing thousands and destroying numerous cities and villages. If it weren't for humanitarian convoys from Russia, coming into the war zone non stop, the situation would have been catastrophic. Now they Kiev government shut off the gas supply to these regions and Russia started supplying it through a different route. Considering all of the above, I find it hard to believe Ukraine still considers these people its own citizens, because what they have been doing to the peaceful population of those territories is nothing short of a genocide. But I'm glad you find it amusing.
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In a post full of stupid, I think that takes the cake.
 
 
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