"Wanker" is a bit harsh. That's personal.
"Useless" on the other hand..............
"Useless" on the other hand..............
What Now For Moyes?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Ah I see, Lol it's funny seeing you rant about it hahah. It was a common theme, yes, but apparently Ed wasn't willing to pay the buy out clause with Ander last season. He's a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime as well who equally cost the clubs, same as Moyes.
What does one have to do with the other, where was i defending Woodward? Whats woodward even got to do with the discussion? Btw it was supposedly Moyes who didn't want to pay Herrera's buy out clause as he hadn't scouted him enough according to Hunter.
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/transfer-talk/79/post/1908047/hunter-herrera-the-right-man-for-united
And if its a question of who cost the club more well Moyes wins that by a long stretch. How much did missing out on CL football cost the club? Or the whole Fellaini debacle by the time we sell him?
That kind of decision would not have been taken by Woodard. Decisions about the maximum we will pay are either taken by the manager or the owners. Woodard does the negotiations, but the decision making on transfers isn't his. The reason we lost Ander last season was we took too long to enter into the negotiations - and that was due to Moyes wanting to develop his extensive research into the player, leading to a last minute rush. We were trying to sign him from a club that always makes it difficult to sign their players - hence you need plenty of time for the negotiations. Moyes didn't give Woodard the go ahead until the last minute - just like the mess with Fabio Coentrao and another last minute bid - both down to Moyes dithering in the market not Woodard. Blame Woodard for what he gets wrong, but don't fall for the smokescreen that it was Woodward's fault last season for these two - it was Moyes.
That makes it sound like Moyes was merely a victim of circumstance, when in actual fact he was a victim of his own cowardice and incompetence.
It will be easier for Van Gaal as he will be compared to Moyes more than to Ferguson, so in that respect the job was a bit of a poison chalice last season. However the fact remains that anything but monumental capitulation and Moyes would still be here. In some respects it's almost fortunate that he was so bad, we could easily have had him for 4-5 years if he underachieved but finished 4th consistently.
I don't think he actually meant it, but what he said there implied that he took the league champions and brought them down to his level.
Meanwhile, Everton were performing better and on course to finishing above us at the end of the season.
Moyes reign was an unmitigated disaster, and I hope history judges him harshly.
Can't see him get a job this year with a decent team anywhere.
Why do/did people think he'd get a job in the Bundesliga? The stronger teams don't want a coaching dinosaur AND wouldn't be willing to pay his huge salary demands, while the lower tier clubs... well, basically the same reasons.
Why do/did people think he'd get a job in the Bundesliga? The stronger teams don't want a coaching dinosaur AND wouldn't be willing to pay his huge salary demands, while the lower tier clubs... well, basically the same reasons.
Plus they'll remember him stuffing up at united more so than the decade or so at Everton.
The reason Moyes will not get a top job again is because you have to have an ability to have teams playing nice football at times......It's fine to play shit football at times like Fergie did at times if you have to, but to insist on playing shit football all the time shows he lacked the balls and the creativity to be a top manager
Under Fergie for the last few years our football was very direct because Scholes was basically our heartbeat for so long and he was severely on the wane while Valencia and Young only knew how to cross the ball into the box and nothing else and Cleverley and Carrick didn't score goals or even assist much so the plan was to get the ball to better players quickly who were able to assist or score.
But much of the greatest football I have ever seen came under Fergie teams from the past when he had players like Cantona, Hughes, a young Giggs and Scholes etc to make it all happen. In fact i'd go as far as saying that Utd teams of the past under Fergie played at times when they were on song the very best football I have ever seen. But Fergie would win ugly too if he had to.
Moyes had a chance to at least try and show that he could attack now that he had the players for it but he didn't have the balls to. Instead he always went for the cautious approach to try and grind out a 1-0 wins even if we were up against vastly inferior teams. His signing of Fellaini instead of Herrera also showed that he was not attack minded enough as a manager to spot the difference in ability between players like Fellaini and Herrera. Moyes got found out pretty quick at this level
Under Fergie for the last few years our football was very direct because Scholes was basically our heartbeat for so long and he was severely on the wane while Valencia and Young only knew how to cross the ball into the box and nothing else and Cleverley and Carrick didn't score goals or even assist much so the plan was to get the ball to better players quickly who were able to assist or score.
But much of the greatest football I have ever seen came under Fergie teams from the past when he had players like Cantona, Hughes, a young Giggs and Scholes etc to make it all happen. In fact i'd go as far as saying that Utd teams of the past under Fergie played at times when they were on song the very best football I have ever seen. But Fergie would win ugly too if he had to.
Moyes had a chance to at least try and show that he could attack now that he had the players for it but he didn't have the balls to. Instead he always went for the cautious approach to try and grind out a 1-0 wins even if we were up against vastly inferior teams. His signing of Fellaini instead of Herrera also showed that he was not attack minded enough as a manager to spot the difference in ability between players like Fellaini and Herrera. Moyes got found out pretty quick at this level
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He was so sorely out of his depth it's unreal... and I actually thought he was the right man until the Stoke away game, in where even with the addition of Mata our attacks looked clueless as ever, where it finally dawned to me that Moyes was not the right man for this job. The 2-2 draw vs Fulham a week later was merely the nail in the coffin that enforced such view.I don't think he actually meant it, but what he said there implied that he took the league champions and brought them down to his level.
Meanwhile, Everton were performing better and on course to finishing above us at the end of the season.
Moyes reign was an unmitigated disaster, and I hope history judges him harshly.
Even then I didn't really hate him, until the successive 0-3 defeats against two of our most bitter rivals Liverpool and City... and all he had to say was "We aspire to be at City's level" - At the end of 12/13 season they finished 11 points (can't exactly remember) behind us, and 9 months later we were "aspiring" to be at their level
what a fecking jokeI didn't understand Everton fans criticizing him when first he came here, but turns out they weren't WUMing after all.
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This.
A lot of mid table premier league teams have deluded expectations. History shows the more pragmatic sides tend to stay up for a longer period of time. There'll always be a market for Moyes. I'd be disappointed if he didn't learn from his last year at United though.
It wasn't the lack of instant results that cost Moyes his job. It was his lack of knowledge of attacking football and lack of balls to at least make an effort to play nice football while at the same time insisting on playing a prehistoric version of 442 despite having players to excite the crowds that essentially cost him his job. A lack of ability to sign the players that were needed also despite having an open check-book didn't help. Pochettino and Martinez were doing no better with their teams than Pulis had been doing with Stoke for years but eventually fans won't tolerate awful football and Pulis decided to move on.
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I think he should move to another league if he wants to become a EL/CL level manager. If he stays in England i fear that he'll be stuck with the same style of management he's plugged away with for his whole career. He needs some fresh ideas so he can mix it up. I actually think that staying with us for so many years has been detrimental to his manageering ability in the sense that we left him to chug along because we were getting comfortable positions in the league, even if we weren't playing particularly exciting stuff at times.
He was never challenged tactically like he was at United. He knew that the tactics with us were enough to get results which would keep him in a job, but not raise us to another level. The reason Pep and Barca got on so well (despite the obvious quality of players he had compared to us) is that they had a winning formula and tactic. We/Moyes had one which was 'just enough'.
He was never challenged tactically like he was at United. He knew that the tactics with us were enough to get results which would keep him in a job, but not raise us to another level. The reason Pep and Barca got on so well (despite the obvious quality of players he had compared to us) is that they had a winning formula and tactic. We/Moyes had one which was 'just enough'.
The United supporting part of me says pilloried, the rational part of me says a sabbatical, then Celtic.
We played a prehistoric version of 4-4-2 in the last few years Ferguson was here. The only thing keeping a lot of fans mum was the results. If I was arsed enough I'd dig up posts bemoaning our stale approach to the game even before Ferguson decided to give it up. I didn't think the team was all that. A better manager would have been able to get better results, but not win the league against City, Liverpool or Chelsea, in my very, very humble opinion. I blame our transfer fiasco on Moyes and Woodward, but they were handed a croaked, unbalanced squad.
Fans have unrealistic expectations, and it's those expectations that got teams like Wigan sent back to the Championship, leaving the dinosaurs like Stoke standing.
He should be crucified as an ironic punishment for that fecking Fulham game. That game was a sickener, no defending him after that.
How about useless wanker?
Moyes were handed the squad 'as is' by Sir Alex because the idea was he'd be able to use the transfer window to build the squad according to his own ideas. He wasn't shy about booting out the old staff; should have been as fecking pro-active in making changes in the squad.
We didn't have unrealistic expectations! We won the league by 12 fecking points, and then end up midtable the next year, playing the worst, most depressing, dire, horrible football I've ever seen United play (first season '74).
No excuses.
I've wasted enough seconds of my life trying to explain how last season's fiasco wasn't all due to Moyes. So I'll agree with you just to end this.
Perfect.
Moyes will do well at a team that isn't supposed to win something. He just isn't a winner.
I have no respect for Moyes as a manager, and I think no good clubs should go near him. He's an ex-player turned manager, and like most players who become managers hasn't changed, updated, evolved his philosophy one bit. Over-training, "get to the byline and put in a cross, play like Jagielka" fecking miserable clown. He's mid-table mediocrity, hope to never hear his name again.
I don't think he actually meant it, but what he said there implied that he took the league champions and brought them down to his level.
Basically yeah thats what i thought of at the time also, he couldn't be blamed for being 7th because he always finished around there. The players on the other hand came 1st the season before so it must be their fault.
Me too some haven't been harsh enough on his time here, baffling that there a few still trying to defend his United tenure. They must have taken a good old swig of the Moyes Kool-aid last year.
I have no respect for Moyes as a manager, and I think no good clubs should go near him. He's an ex-player turned manager, and like most players who become managers hasn't changed, updated, evolved his philosophy one bit. Over-training, "get to the byline and put in a cross, play like Jagielka" fecking miserable clown. He's mid-table mediocrity, hope to never hear his name again.
Vast majority of managers used to be football players, it is not the issue here.
Sorry to be ranting at you, ade. And I do agree, I spent all of last season trying to defend Moyes against my 100%-anti-Moyes-from-the-start family and mates. 'The psychological impact of Sir Alex leaving; the bedding in; the time needed'.
Now that's all said and done, I do believe he did feck it up though. Spectacularly.
I have no respect for Moyes as a manager, and I think no good clubs should go near him. He's an ex-player turned manager, and like most players who become managers hasn't changed, updated, evolved his philosophy one bit. Over-training, "get to the byline and put in a cross, play like Jagielka" fecking miserable clown. He's mid-table mediocrity, hope to never hear his name again.
SAF, Guardiola, LvG, and Ancelotti were also players. The issue has more to do with personality types and the willingness to be adventurous enough to learn and apply new things.
Look at LvG. He prefers a 4-3-3 but saw that a 3-4-1-2 suits our personnel better so implemented it right away. I don't see Moyes trying a 3-4-1-2 out in a million years even if his squad is tailor-made for it.
I still shudder at the thought that this man used to be our manager. Can you imagine if the board said "Let's give David another year!"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...rom-moment-he-replaced-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html
Yeah same and besides Moyes wins morally so all is well.
Agreed. No club should go near him again.
No doubt in my mind he'll be future Celtic manager
He has that job written all over him. Ex player, can handle low finances, easy domestic competitions and absolutely no expectation in Europe. 25 defeats out of 27 away CL games. They shouldn't be allowed back in it.
He has that job written all over him. Ex player, can handle low finances, easy domestic competitions and absolutely no expectation in Europe. 25 defeats out of 27 away CL games. They shouldn't be allowed back in it.
I never was for his appointment but that was the game that had me actively vocal against him, just thinking of all those useless crosses raining down in the box is sickening.
I bet you if G or P Neville get anywhere near managing our team, little will be different.
i totally agree.
Have we exonerated SAF and Bobby C for appointing him and the board for going along with it?
Ferguson should be held accountable. Legendary manager or not, he made a complete balls with that call.
Exactly! If, his only reasons for appointing him were the same ones as in his book, he needs to be held accountable.
Bloody hell, I'm one of the best guitarists in the country but, if I make a balls of a gig, I'm held accountable.
Fergie himself once said that the most talented footballers rarely make the best coaches, as it's hard for them to understand the strength/weakness of other players. Maybe it's also the case that the most talented coaches struggle to find their replacements, as they are focusing too much on finding a miniature version of themselves?
I started to read his book around christmas but was so depressed at the events on the pitch I couldn't bring myself to finish it.
While I will always be grateful to SAF and he was one of the best of all time but choosing Moyes because basically he was Scottish was just criminal, and the board went along with it like he was seriously being considered all along!
To an extent yes, i don't feel as strongly as i did about it a few months ago though. None of this could make me lose any respect for SAF but i would definitely like to hear Fergusons thoughts on the whole episode one day.
I have huge respect for Sir Bobby also but to be honest i doubt he had that much input in to the decision to hire Moyes. Just last week i read an article where Charlton was saying LVG was the right man for the job, yet not 3-4 months ago he was saying the same about Moyes even when things were dire. So i suspect Sir Bobby just went along with the whole Moyes thing i doubt he has the influence now that he once did.