If they do, I'm not sure if Mandukic would join the Spurs; I'd think he'd prefer CL football. If Suarrez moves to Real Madrid, I could imagine Liverpool being interested in him, too.
This will be for sure be an exciting transfer summer.
Pep Guardiola's Bayern
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This will be for sure be an exciting transfer summer.
I have little doubt that he find a club, that plays CL football. Transfer fee and wage will be fairly low considering his class. Arsenal, Atletico, (Liverpool), Neapel, Rom are all reasonable options.
Yeah that looks impressive...but what did he do to win them?
The league! Well done Pep, the German league is exciting but it is hardly the most competitive if truth be told.
What other trophies did he pick up? I hope we are not including some charity shield equivalent in that haul!
He actually lost the German 'charity shield' against Dortmund.
But yeah, clearly winning the league and coming close to a new points total record, winning the German cup, the UEFA super cup and the club world cup along with making it to the CL semifinals and that all despite countless injuries to key players clearly shouldn't be called impressive. Everything but defending the treble should probably be seen as a failure.
You'd think Mandzukic would be the ideal replacement for Costa at Atletico given his power, aerial ability and quality work-rate which will suit Atletico down to the ground considering he is willing to press from the front. I don't think it's unfair to suggest Costa thrived in Atletico's system and it made him appear better than he is, likewise Mandzukic would really flourish in that sense.
Whoever Atletico decide to sign will inevitably end up being a success anyway, their succession of quality strikers is remarkable.
Whoever Atletico decide to sign will inevitably end up being a success anyway, their succession of quality strikers is remarkable.
Thanks for the reply, you saved me a google search.
So Pep won the double! i personally don't rate Super Cup and World Club as full trophies, again no offence! i just give more credit and respect to winning the league.
All things considered Pep had a decent season...new league, new team etc i will be interested to see how he does next season.
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How is playing the 2nd best league season in the history of the club, beating an excellent Dortmund side in the cup final and making it to the CL semifinals a 'decent' season? It's really beyond me. It's not me being sensitive, it just doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. The team dropped a level at the end of the season and the CL exit wasn't pretty, but it seems like way too many people forgot how brilliant we played for the first 7-8 months, how we continued to break records in the league and in the CL and that all despite massive injury problems in key areas. If that's a decent season, what's a good one, what's a great one and what's an outstanding one? Because in my book, the only improvement to the season would have been another treble and that really can't be the expectation.
Winning all competitive games, beating Atletico Madrid 8-0 in the CL final, etc. Then Pep would finally have a successful season at Bayern. Until then Guardiola is past his best and forever remembered as a lucky manager falling behind the modern game despite being only 43 years of age with two champions league titles under his belt.
Wouldn't life be boring if we all agreed...
In my eyes 1 year ago Bayern were the best team in the world...so managing them to the german league title and domestic cup gets the 'decent' rating from me! which is a good rating btw and i believe Pep will improve next season. (Like i mentioned in my previous posts)
isn't it boring/annoying when two people cant see eye to eye on anything and eat up pages and pages of thread space? sometimes it's actually not boring when someone agrees with you. if we all agreed, so what? you can agree on a fundamental point but have different ideas on how something should be implemented.Wouldn't life be boring if we all agreed...
In my eyes 1 year ago Bayern were the best team in the world...so managing them to the german league title and domestic cup gets the 'decent' rating from me! which is a good rating btw and i believe Pep will improve next season. (Like i mentioned in my previous posts)
the issue with people's views on bayern was expecting them to eclipse the 2012/13 season which was deemed a perfect season. it would be like United fans expecting us to win the treble again after 98/99. Even though Pep came in, there was an inevitable drop off and it's something he has to fix. some players may have to go in order for this to happen but they still had a relatively good season
Wouldn't life be boring if we all agreed...
In my eyes 1 year ago Bayern were the best team in the world...so managing them to the german league title and domestic cup gets the 'decent' rating from me! which is a good rating btw and i believe Pep will improve next season. (Like i mentioned in my previous posts)
The special was not winning the league and the cups - but maybe keeping the concentration that long. Usually the players after such a season take it really slow. They did not. Until March they broke all possible records.
8:0, against Atleti? People would have said it was not enough.
In my opinion we had a very good season. Like Balu mentioned we played incredibly well during the first half of the season but then then the intensity and our form dropped considerably. Ridiculous to think we would have replicated last season's success. Performances like that don't happen often and it is incredibly hard to keep the players motivated after such a successful season. In terms of that Pep has done quite well. I've got high hopes for next season and hopefully we'd be able to play like we did during the first half of the season.
I just don't get how people see the one season peak within a longer period of incredible success as the norm and everything below it as 'decent'. It was so obvious that Bayern in 12/13 was a team on a mission from the first game on. The whole team was fueled by the disappointing ending of the previous year and showed a determination that was way above anything a manager can implement on his own. And we actually came pretty close to replicating it. It's not only that we won the league title, it's how we won it that's mighty impressive. Downplaying it, especially by instantly mentioning that the Bundesliga isn't competitive is just weird. The reason the Bundesliga wasn't competitive in the last two years was because Bayern played two extraordinary seasons that no one, really no one thought were possible. And it's not like we have the most expensive team of all time or anything like that, hell even United spend more money on wages than we do.In my eyes 1 year ago Bayern were the best team in the world...so managing them to the german league title and domestic cup gets the 'decent' rating from me! which is a good rating btw and i believe Pep will improve next season. (Like i mentioned in my previous posts)
Yeah, we missed the chance to defend the CL, which is a bit of a downer, but no club has done that, so it can't be a reason to call the season 'decent'. We failed to achieve something even more extraordinary than a treble. Sucks, but it doesn't mean we didn't play a fecking brilliant season again.
Dortmund being excellent in the DFB Cup final? Really? Not in my view at all;: Many of our lads were way below their abilities and form, i.e. Reus.
To play devils advocate...if Celtic win the league in 2015 would you say Ronny Deila had been fantastic and had an impressive season?
Pep is a victim of his own success.
Pep is a victim of his own success.
Dortmund still was an excellent side, but Guardiola's tactics were spot on and nullified your strengths, so yeah, we beat an excellent Dortmund team in the cup final, a team that played brilliant football in the weeks before, almost kicked Real out of the CL and beat us at home 3-0 in the league.
If you ignore, how we won it and what kind of football we played until the title was secured, then you could say that he did what was expected and not more. But that's of course complete nonsense, after all we love to watch football every week for 90 minutes and not read the table at the end of the season and just hand out grades without knowing what we're talking about.
No surprise I disagree with you as it doesn't matter at all how excellent or poor we've been in any previous game.
Besides, we weren't really good against Hertha the week before, the 4-0 was quite misleading and included at least two illegal goals and many players played mediocre.
Re: the 3-0 happened as Bayern players repeated numerous times because you've been not as focused as ususal so it wasn't related to BVB's performance.
I do agree though that Pep had a very decent season.
Sorry, but that's just stupid. That way you can downplay every great performance in football (not that it was a great game by Bayern anyway).
05.04. 2-1 win against Wolfsburg
08.04. 2-0 win against Real Madrid (CL return leg)
12.04. 3-0 win away at Bayern
15.04. 2-0 win against Wolfsburg (cup semifinal)
19.04. 4-2 win against Mainz
26.04. 2-2 draw away at Leverkusen
03.05. 3-2 win against Hoffenheim
10.05. 4-0 win away at Hertha
Dortmund's games prior to the cup final. And those aren't weak teams, all of the league games were against top10 teams. If you're telling me that I can't say that Bayern beat an excellent Dortmund side in great form in the cup final, then I'm lost. Most of the 'experts' were even saying Dortmund are favourites before the game. Clearly, Guardiola's tactical changes from the previous games against Dortmund paid off and nullified your strengths. It's just silly if you can't give him credit for that and try to downplay Dortmund's great form at the end of the season.
Okay, have to admit I don't understand the point of playing Lahm as a central midfielder. While he is quite good there, is he really enough of an upgrade over the other options that Bayern/Germany have in midfield to weaken the RB spot?
After the German triumph, I think there is alot of pressure on him this season.. he needs to make the team more 'German' to get the best out of them. His players have come off the back of a brilliant world cup, Robben too.. so anything less than a CL final, I reckon he'll be gone by end of this season.
his first season he took over the trebble winner
his second season he takes over the world champions
his second season he takes over the world champions
last season he made it pretty clear, that the time for compromises is over. If the board doesnt back him, he´ll leave. I expect a lot more Pep next season.
Well Kroos has been let go, it's all well saying if the board doesn't back him, at the end of the day if Pep doesn't do more next season I'm sure there will be issues, especially after the sale of Kroos, big season for Thiago
Pep has his own vision of how he wants to play and I feel Bayern would do best to support him in that as much as they can. He took over a treble winner and won the double which isn't a first season at all I feel. Winning the treble is a thing that even the best managers only ever manage to do a couple of times in their careers so to expect him to repeat that success directly after Heynckes had done it was a bit unreasonable anyways but I guess the more sensible Bayern fans weren't even expecting another treble to follow.
??? You have high standards, I give you that. Is there any manager who won the treble more than once?
I don't know who won it more than once, but that's not the point I was trying to make, the point that I was making was that expecting him to win the treble directly after you guys had won it wasn't a realistic expectation and therefor Pep did quite well winning the double.
Pretty sure no one did
. In the CL era it's just Ferguson, Mourinho, Guardiola and Heynckes and I think Ajax in the 70's, Glasgow in the 60's and Eindhoven in the 80's are the 3 treble winning teams before that. But yes I agree, the expectations some have on the team are ridiculous. Everything but defending the treble was seen as a failure, it's fecking crazy.Jose won it with Inter as wellPretty sure no one did
Jock Stein won it twice in three seasons at Celtic. Probably be more out there. Edit: I see you're talking about including the CL as part of it. Can't think of many then. We have two domestic cups and Germany only has one, I believe, so it's easier for us to win a treble (though still a ridiculously tough thing to achieve).
As for Bayern. Why would he let Kroos leave? I know his contract was running down but what happened between Kroos and the club/Pep that no new contract was signed? He's an excellent player. Kroos goes and Lahm will continue to play in midfield? I don't quite get it.
Pretty sure no one did
That's the one
.Celtic only won the European Cup once in '67. And only the FA cup counts towards the real treble. If you include small trebles, then there are a few more including UEFA cup wins or something like that. The league, the biggest domestic cup and the European Cup/CL. That's in my opinion the treble.
Pretty sure no one did
Yeah I just read that only 7 teams in European professional football ever won a treble and no manager twice, so yeah you are right my standards were too high, so just scratch that part. I just felt that some people were too keen of branding him as a failure if he doesn't manage to repeat the success from the previous season which of course was highly unrealistic and even more unrealistic than I first thought. So winning the double after a treble is about as good as it gets.
I think your attitude is all wrong Balu. Such historical constraints are meant to be broke, Ancelotti did break one the last season.
With Bayern's squad Pep has to be targeting CL + League every year. Winning only one does not mean a bad or unsuccessful season but expectation should be to win both. You don't always get to assemble such group of players with many in prime of their life.
With Bayern's squad Pep has to be targeting CL + League every year. Winning only one does not mean a bad or unsuccessful season but expectation should be to win both. You don't always get to assemble such group of players with many in prime of their life.
Well of course the goal is to win the treble every season at the moment. I'm not denying that. However saying a domestic double (won while playing on a ridiculously high level and setting several records in the CL and the league) and a CL semifinal is a failure and if Guardiola only repeats that, there'll be issues is nonsense. Some people make it sound like the treble is the norm and not an incredible success and failing to reach that norm means letting go of the manager. It's not like I lack confidence or trust in the players, remember me saying that we'll win the World Cup all throughout the tournament, even after the Algeria game? I expect something similar from the players at the club. But if you have countless injuries and see that your players are burned out and the mentality just isn't at 100%, then you simply have to accept that and challenge again next year. Demanding to write history seems a bit stupid, demanding success and hoping to write history is fair enough.
Also I don't think that Ancelotti winning a 3rd CL is comparable to defending the CL, let alone the treble. It was inevitable that Ancelotti, Mourinho or Guardiola achieve that with the way club football has changed. As long as those three keep working at one of the top clubs in Europe, we'll see it again and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them ends his career with 5 CL wins. Doubt we'll see more than 1 CL title defense in the next 10 years though, if we see one at all.
If only more fans thought that way, the world would be a better place!
Look at it this way. If 5 years from now, you only have one CL to show for this group of players then you would have most definitely under achieved. Personally I think, Pep should have won at least one more CL with the Barca team as well.
So 2 CL in 4 years is underachieving?
Did I say Barca underachieved?
No but you said he should have won at least one more CL, which is unrealistic to say the least.
Whatever happens I think it's Bayern's board to blame. They had a perfectly functioning machine and brought in a manager with a very different style. Now they have to change and adjust many things to suit his style, basically redo most of what Heynckes built.
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