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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Speaker has selected the amendments to be voted on

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House of Commons

Parliament

The Speaker has provisionally selected four amendments.

  • Amendment A (Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's amendment) which rejects the deal because it fails to provide a permanent customs union and "strong single market deal", as set out in Labour's "six tests", rejects leaving with no deal and resolves to "pursue every option" that prevents either no deal or leaving on the basis of the current deal.
  • Amendment K (SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford's amendment) which declines to approve Theresa May's Brexit deal "in line with the views of the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly that they would be damaging for Scotland, Wales and the nations and regions of the UK as a whole", and calls for the UK's departure from the EU to be delayed until another withdrawal deal is agreed.
  • Amendment B (Tory MP Sir Edward Leigh) which makes clear the Northern Ireland backstop is temporary and should remain temporary and calls for assurance that, if the backstop doesn't end by the close of 2021, this will be treated as a fundamental change of circumstances and would terminate the Withdrawal Treaty on 1 January 2022.
  • Amendment F (Tory MP John Baron's amendment) gives the UK the right to terminate the Northern Ireland backstop without the agreement of the EU.
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Cox says a lot without ever saying anything of substance at all.

The amateur dramatics are so terribly grating. He's so desperate to be seen as a great orator.
 
villain said:


How this man isn't on the run for fear of his life, is beyond me.
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Completely agree.
It was typical of populist Cameron, a PM of so little substance but so much hot air that virtually nothing was thought through or planned for that this shambles has occurred.
 
villain said:


How this man isn't on the run for fear of his life, is beyond me.
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Cameron is certainly the first person to blame but don't forget the leaders of both main parties promptly pledged to carry on with the process and included the delivery of Brexit in their manifestos. I blame Cameron, May, Corbyn and all the people that voted for them. The last bit upsets some of the folk on here though.
 
711 said:
Cameron is certainly the first person to blame but don't forget the leaders of both main parties promptly pledged to carry on with the process and included the delivery of Brexit in their manifestos. I blame Cameron, May, Corbyn and all the people that voted for them. The last bit upsets some of the folk on here though.
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100% this.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Thick as mince Davis spouting gibberish on Sky News
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Buster15 said:
Completely agree.
It was typical of populist Cameron, a PM of so little substance but so much hot air that virtually nothing was thought through or planned for that this shambles has occurred.
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Davis and the rest of the Brexiteers bottling it and not running for the leadership when Cameron ran away.
If we had a PM who really wanted to exit the EU then I am sure that this mess would have been avoided.
However all they do is moan moan moan about May but they haven’t the balls to do the job themselves, B J ex foreign secretary ex everything and I think come the next election ex MP is one man who should take a good look at himself, all very good slagging PM May off but when shove came to shove he ran away from the leadership contest like a rat up a drain pipe, probably because he realised as well as his fellow MP’s that he wasn’t up to the big job.

As for Cameron, well I think he will go down in history as the worse Tory PM ever, and yes I include Ted Heath in that list. Cameron bribed the country to vote for him by offering the referendum and when the referendum result went against him then he scuttled off like a horrible little weasel that he is.

What a mess and I fear it will get a lot lot worse before it gets any better.
 
Melville Red said:
Davis and the rest of the Brexiteers bottling it and not running for the leadership when Cameron ran away.
If we had a PM who really wanted to exit the EU then I am sure that this mess would have been avoided.
However all they do is moan moan moan about May but they haven’t the balls to do the job themselves, B J ex foreign secretary ex everything and I think come the next election ex MP is one man who should take a good look at himself, all very good slagging PM May off but when shove came to shove he ran away from the leadership contest like a rat up a drain pipe, probably because he realised as well as his fellow MP’s that he wasn’t up to the big job.

As for Cameron, well I think he will go down in history as the worse Tory PM ever, and yes I include Ted Heath in that list. Cameron bribed the country to vote for him by offering the referendum and when the referendum result went against him then he scuttled off like a horrible little weasel that he is.

What a mess and I fear it will get a lot lot worse before it gets any better.
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How though? The proposals of the hard Brexiteers were always even more unrealistic than May's.
 
Melville Red said:
Davis and the rest of the Brexiteers bottling it and not running for the leadership when Cameron ran away.
If we had a PM who really wanted to exit the EU then I am sure that this mess would have been avoided.
However all they do is moan moan moan about May but they haven’t the balls to do the job themselves, B J ex foreign secretary ex everything and I think come the next election ex MP is one man who should take a good look at himself, all very good slagging PM May off but when shove came to shove he ran away from the leadership contest like a rat up a drain pipe, probably because he realised as well as his fellow MP’s that he wasn’t up to the big job.

As for Cameron, well I think he will go down in history as the worse Tory PM ever, and yes I include Ted Heath in that list. Cameron bribed the country to vote for him by offering the referendum and when the referendum result went against him then he scuttled off like a horrible little weasel that he is.

What a mess and I fear it will get a lot lot worse before it gets any better.
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I don't think whoever the PM would have been would have made much difference other than removing various red lines but removal of those red lines meant watering down Brexit.

May's biggest mistake was making out to parliament that her ridiculous claims would ever be agreedby the EU, (cake and eat it)

The Attorney General is currently speaking some sense at present in parliament and is explaining to parliament what would have been possible and is possible.
This should have been explained three years ago.
The withdrawal agreement will never have an agreed future trade deal at the time of exit.

And of course parliament is not listening and that includes the ardent Brexiters and Labour.

Nothing will ever be agreed. The EU are looking on and no matter what concessions they could give even if they were willing to do so will never satisfy sufficient numbers in parliament to agree to anything. Thus why bother.
 
Sassy Colin said:
It's not his fault the country is full of racists.

Yet again I have to point out that his only fault in this was his naivety in underestimating the stupidness of the British voting public.
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Is it not his fault that he called the referendum to get himself reelected?

Should he not have known that such a complex issue as leaving the EU should never have went to a people's vote regardless of whether he underestimated their stupidity?
 
Sassy Colin said:
It's not his fault the country is full of racists.

Yet again I have to point out that his only fault in this was his naivety in underestimating the stupidness of the British voting public.
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I had a debate with one of my colleagues who voted for Brexit the other day - and this whole idea of the British Empire being able to negotiate better deals without the EU.

The thought popped in my head that the British public haven't dealt with the collapse of the British Empire.
I think that's a conversation to be had another day, but I think it feeds into the notion of some of those who support Brexit.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Is it not his fault that he called the referendum to get himself reelected?

Should he not have known that such a complex issue as leaving the EU should never have went to a people's vote regardless of whether he underestimated their stupidity?
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You're right but the irony is that people want the complex issue to be put back to the people again to decide. Sorry but the MPs are no more informed than they were last time and nothing indicates that the public is either.
 
villain said:
I had a debate with one of my colleagues who voted for Brexit the other day - and this whole idea of the British Empire being able to negotiate better deals without the EU.

The thought popped in my head that the British public haven't dealt with the collapse of the British Empire.
I think that's a conversation to be had another day, but I think it feeds into the notion of some of those who support Brexit.
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Absolutely, the Empire went a long time ago, long before most of these idiots were even born.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Is it not his fault that he called the referendum to get himself reelected?

Should he not have known that such a complex issue as leaving the EU should never have went to a people's vote regardless of whether he underestimated their stupidity?
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That's what they do. They roll the dice. Even Theresa May with her snap election, rolled the dice and ended up shooting herself in the foot.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
You're right but the irony is that people want the complex issue to be put back to the people again to decide. Sorry but the MPs are no more informed than they were last time and nothing indicates that the public is either.
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The problem is that once you bring something to public vote, there's no going back, you have to keep going to the people to get the result you want. You can't ignore the will of the people, you can just... try to get them to see sense the next time you ask them.

But yeah, I don't know if, nearly 3 years later, remain would even win.
 
Massive Spanner said:
The problem is that once you bring something to public vote, there's no going back, you have to keep going to the people to get the result you want. You can't ignore the will of the people, you can just... try to get them to see sense the next time you ask them.

But yeah, I don't know if, nearly 3 years later, remain would even win.
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In which case, we would deserve everything we get.
 
villain said:
I had a debate with one of my colleagues who voted for Brexit the other day - and this whole idea of the British Empire being able to negotiate better deals without the EU.

The thought popped in my head that the British public haven't dealt with the collapse of the British Empire.
I think that's a conversation to be had another day, but I think it feeds into the notion of some of those who support Brexit.
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I think this mentality is older then the empire itself. The spat between the Roman Catholic Church and Henry Tudor is basically Brexit all over again.
 
Massive Spanner said:
The problem is that once you bring something to public vote, there's no going back, you have to keep going to the people to get the result you want. You can't ignore the will of the people, you can just... try to get them to see sense the next time you ask them.

But yeah, I don't know if, nearly 3 years later, remain would even win.
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I don't even know if remain would be on the ballot... If forced to a second ref I could see may proposing leave with my deal or leave with no deal
Basically the people chose to leave and now they will decide if the EU offer is acceptable
 
devilish said:
I think this mentality is older then the empire itself. The spat between the Roman Catholic Church and Henry Tudor is basically Brexit all over again.
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Hmmm this is a hot take I haven't heard before, tell me more
 
Sassy Colin said:
It's not his fault the country is full of racists.

Yet again I have to point out that his only fault in this was his naivety in underestimating the stupidness of the British voting public.
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It is his fault that his approach to politics was basically high stakes gambling and he quit the table the moment the cards didn't go his way. A reckless and irresponsible leader
 
sun_tzu said:
I don't even know if remain would be on the ballot... If forced to a second ref I could see may proposing leave with my deal or leave with no deal
Basically the people chose to leave and now they will decide if the EU offer is acceptable
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Remain has to be an option.... I.e. the now we actually know what's on the table referendum. Or put another way, the first vote was a temperature check, getting us to this process. And then there is the reality check.

I'd vote to have a Ferrari if someone told me they would pay all the fuel, repair costs, insurance and a heavy discount. If reality turns out the Ferrari is a Skoda, the wheels don't count in repairs and will cost 500% more, there will be a road tax, there will a storage tax, the repairs will need to be done in China only, etc, I'd probably say hey I can do without the Ferrari with one of Brexit related reasons: I wasn't that fussed anyway, didn't read the T&Cs, I'm a dumb fcuk, what are you saying stop talking, urgh I just want white cars but thats never going to happen.
 
Sassy Colin said:
It's not his fault the country is full of racists.

Yet again I have to point out that his only fault in this was his naivety in underestimating the stupidness of the British voting public.
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Nonsense, he nearly allowed the split of the UK and then allowed the self-sabotage that is brexit. He absolved himself from the role of protecting the countries interests in exchange for political capital.

His fault is not naivety in making a bad gamble it's making it in the first place and putting party before country.
 
villain said:
I had a debate with one of my colleagues who voted for Brexit the other day - and this whole idea of the British Empire being able to negotiate better deals without the EU.

The thought popped in my head that the British public haven't dealt with the collapse of the British Empire.
I think that's a conversation to be had another day, but I think it feeds into the notion of some of those who support Brexit.
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impCon.png
 
villain said:
Hmmm this is a hot take I haven't heard before, tell me more
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Id suggest you read about it. The King was a devout Catholic who wrote a book about how important it is for the church to act as a moral compass over Europe. He also decided to marry his dead brother's widow Catherine D'Aragon as she was one of the most powerful women in the world being the daughter of Isabella d'Aragon and the aunt of Charles V who basically ruled half of Europe. That was until Henry lost hope in his wife producing a male heir and his lover refused to let him touch her unless she becomes queen.

Henry decided to commit a massive U-Turn on both church teachings and his wife and ask for a divorce. The Church surprisingly took an open minded view about and even sent Cardinal Campeggio who first tried to reconcile the couple then to pressure Catherine to retire in some monastery. Yet things needed to be dealt delicately as divorce went against the church teachings and Nephew Charles wasn't exactly someone the church wanted to piss off.

Well, time and patience weren't exactly Henry's strength as he demanded the Church to take the decision ASAP. Pressured by Henry's thugs Campeggio and his ilk decided to shift matters out of London and into the pope's court which infuriated Henry further. He decided to get back control, by leaving the church, marry Anne Boleyn and create a religion of his own. It turned out that Anne Boleyn couldn't produce a male heir either and was executed. In total Henry had 6 wives, 2 of which ended up beheaded and 1 who lived in misery for all her life. His dynasty died 1 generation after as his son Edward died as a young man, Mary died with what is thought to be cancer and Elizabeth was too traumatised to get married and rescind power to yet another male.

All English were effected by this madness. The Catholics suffered under Henry, Edward and Elizabeth while the Protestants suffered under Mary, whom, like her mother was catholic. There was also a crusade against England which was a failure, which lead to a counter crusade by the English on the Spanish which also failed
 
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devilish said:
Id suggest you read about it. The King was a devout Catholic who wrote a book about how important it is for the church to act as a moral compass over Europe. He also decided to marry his dead brother's widow Catherine D'Aragon as she was one of the most powerful women in the world being the daughter of Isabella d'Aragon and the aunt of Charles V who basically ruled half of Europe. That was until Henry lost hope in his wife producing a male heir and his lover refused to let him touch her unless she becomes queen.

Henry decided to commit a massive U-Turn on both church teachings and his wife and ask for a divorce. The Church surprisingly took an open minded view about and even sent Cardinal Campeggio who first tried to reconcile the couple then to pressure Catherine to retire in some monastery. Yet things needed to be dealt delicately as divorce went against the church teachings and Nephew Charles wasn't exactly someone the church wanted to piss off.

Well, time and patience weren't exactly Henry's strength as he demanded the Church to take the decision ASAP. Pressured by Henry's thugs Campeggio and his ilk decided to shift matters out of London and into the pope's court which infuriated Henry further. He lost it completely by leaving the church, marry Anne Boleyn and create a religion of his own. It turned out that Anne Boleyn couldn't produce a male heir either and was executed. In total Henry had 6 wives, 2 of which ended up beheaded and 1 who lived in misery for all her life. His dynasty died 1 generation after as his son Edward died as a young man, Mary died with what is thought to be cancer and Elizabeth was too traumatised to get married and rescind power to yet another male.

All English were effected by this madness. The Catholics suffered under Henry, Edward and Elizabeth while the Protestants suffered under Mary, whom, like her mother was catholic. There was also a crusade against England which was a failure, which lead to a counter crusade by the English on the Spanish which also failed
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Yeah I know the history of Henry VIII I had just never heard the comparison with Brexit before - i'm assuming you're saying the two are linked because everybody was affected by his rash decision making and short sightedness? Surely that's not just limited to Henry VIII?

Aboutreika18 said:
impCon.png
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Makes sense. Accurate representation of the British empire isn't taught in schools, and I certainly wasn't taught about colonialism at all.
 
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