A people's Revolution

oh and by the way..wikileaks has just released docs involving Omar Solaiman .....

interesting stuff:

WikiLeaks: Israel's secret hotline to the man tipped to replace Mubarak - FOCUS Information Agency

London. The new vice-president of Egypt, Omar Suleiman, is a long-standing favourite of Israel's who spoke daily to the Tel Aviv government via a secret "hotline" to Cairo, leaked documents disclose, according to The Daily Telegraph.
Mr Suleiman, who is widely tipped to take over from Hosni Mubarak as president, was named as Israel's preferred candidate for the job after discussions with American officials in 2008.
As a key figure working for Middle East peace, he once suggested that Israeli troops would be "welcome" to invade Egypt to stop weapons being smuggled to Hamas terrorists in neighbouring Gaza.
The details, which emerged in secret files obtained by WikiLeaks and passed to The Daily Telegraph, come after Mr Suleiman began talks with opposition groups on the future for Egypt's government.
On Saturday, Mr Suleiman won the backing of Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State, to lead the "transition" to democracy after two weeks of demonstrations calling for President Mubarak to resign.
David Cameron, the Prime Minister, spoke to Mr Suleiman yesterday and urged him to take "bold and credible steps" to show the world that Egypt is embarking on an "irreversible, urgent and real" transition.
Leaked cables from American embassies in Cairo and Tel Aviv disclose the close co-operation between Mr Suleiman and the US and Israeli governments as well as diplomats' intense interest in likely successors to the ageing President Mubarak, 83.
The documents highlight the delicate position which the Egyptian government seeks to maintain in Middle East politics, as a leading Arab nation with a strong relationship with the US and Israel. By 2008, Mr Suleiman, who was head of the foreign intelligence service, had become Israel's main point of contact in the Egyptian government.
David Hacham, a senior adviser from the Israeli Ministry of Defence, told the American embassy in Tel Aviv that a delegation led by Israel's defence minister, Ehud Barak had been impressed by Mr Suleiman, whose name is spelled "Soliman" in some cables.
But Mr Hacham was "shocked" by President Mubarak's "aged appearance and slurred speech".
The cable, from August 2008, said: "Hacham was full of praise for Soliman, however, and noted that a 'hot line' set up between the MOD and Egyptian General Intelligence Service is now in daily use.
"Hacham noted that the Israelis believe Soliman is likely to serve as at least an interim President if Mubarak dies or is incapacitated." The Tel Aviv diplomats added: "We defer to Embassy Cairo for analysis of Egyptian succession scenarios, but there is no question that Israel is most comfortable with the prospect of Omar Soliman."
Elsewhere the documents disclose that Mr Suleiman was stung by Israeli criticism of Egypt's inability to stop arms smugglers transporting weapons to Palestinian militants in Gaza. At one point he suggested that Israel send troops into the Egyptian border region of Philadelphi to "stop the smuggling".
"In their moments of greatest frustration, [Egyptian Defence Minister] Tantawi and Soliman each have claimed that the IDF [Israel Defence Forces] would be 'welcome' to re-invade Philadelphi, if the IDF thought that would stop the smuggling," the cable said.
The files suggest that Mr Suleiman wanted Hamas "isolated", and thought Gaza should "go hungry but not starve".
"We have a short time to reach peace," he told US diplomats. "We need to wake up in the morning with no news of terrorism, no explosions, and no news of more deaths."
Yesterday, Hosni Mubarak's control of Egypt's state media, a vital lynchpin of his 30-year presidency, started to slip as the country's largest-circulation newspaper declared its support for the uprising.
Hoping to sap the momentum from street protests demanding his overthrow, the president has instructed his deputy to launch potentially protracted negotiations with secular and Islamist opposition parties. The talks continued for a second day yesterday without yielding a significant breakthrough.
But Mr Mubarak was dealt a significant setback as the state-controlled Al-Ahram, Egypt's second oldest newspaper and one of the most famous publications in the Middle East, abandoned its long-standing slavish support for the regime.
In a front-page leading article, the newspaper hailed the "nobility" of the "revolution" and demanded the government embark on irreversible constitutional and legislative changes.
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ooeat0meoo said:
I'm curious as to your thoughts/feelings on El-Baradei as a possible transition figure?
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Other from doing a shit job as IAEI chief (from Western point of view) I don't know a thing about the figure. I doubt you know much, but more importantly I doubt many Egyptians do.

Do you honestly beleive that after three decades under Mubarak the Egyptian army, intelligence services and police are suddenly going to take orders from an administrator who has just popped up from Vienna? I doubt he's a figure which could really run the country in a "transition period". Mind you, I have my doubts regarding a swift switch to democracy in the Arab world so any "transition" would probably see one dictator replaced by another imo.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
I missed that story...

I thought Livni was the moderate. I try my best to keep up with the news but work has gotten in the way over the past few years.

It doesn't help Israel in that the person that had been propped up as the moderate, really isn't. But then again... who am I to talk, Sen. John Kerry throwing the 2004 Presidential election was embarrassing for the USA.
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You seem to miss a lot of stories, Bob. There are individuals in the UK interested in pressing charges against Livni for her part in decision making concerning the conflicts in question. For some odd reason the Brits have this stupid law that subjects her for possible arrest if she gets there.

I'm sure that makes the "moderate, cool head" Livni an extremist.
 
holyland red said:
Other from doing a shit job as IAEI chief (from Western point of view) I don't know a thing about the figure. I doubt you know much, but more importantly I doubt many Egyptians do.

Do you honestly beleive that after three decades under Mubarak the Egyptian army, intelligence services and police are suddenly going to take orders from an administrator who has just popped up from Vienna? I doubt he's a figure which could really run the country in a "transition period". Mind you, I have my doubts regarding a swift switch to democracy in the Arab world so any "transition" would probably see one dictator replaced by another imo.
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He seems like a solid guy... My answer is 'Yes' I believe he would be incredibly successful. ~ Leading the IAEI is 'a big fecking deal' (To quote the reflection of our VP Joe Biden when referring to the current situation in the ME).

Speaking of Wild Joe B... I would take El-Barade as VP of the USA over Joe Biden, any day of the week.


But seriously, El-Barade has a great presence in front of the camera, he seems like a person that has a grasp of rational thinking... he led the IAEI, I know you stretched you imagination by including 'chief' in describing him, but seriously when you look at the world leaders and how incompetent so many are... this guy has some good potential.


If this fecktard can run a country...

CENTER]
 
Biggest protests since the start of the revolution hamdlilah

We're not going back God's willing :)
 
RedSky At Night said:
Keep fighting for what you believe in Avatar, stay safe buddy :)
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Whatever you are doing over there is pushing Washington DC in your direction, Avatar.

Reuters
WASHINGTON | Tue Feb 8, 2011 3:16pm EST

WASHINGTON Feb 8 (Reuters) - U.S. Vice President Joe Biden pressed his Egyptian counterpart Omar Suleiman on Tuesday for an orderly transition of power in Egypt that is "prompt, meaningful, peaceful and legitimate," the White House said.

Biden also called for the immediate lifting of Egypt's longstanding emergency law and reiterated the U.S. stance that any future Egyptian government "be determined by the Egyptian people," the White House said.



Keep it going!!!
 

Anti Mubarak protesters violently lynching pro-Mubarak supporters.
 
Interesting interview with a senior leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Essam el-Erian. Here's what he had to say regarding The MB.

Erian, an outspoken reformist on the brotherhood's guidance council, is at pains to sketch out the limits of his organisation's political ambitions. He insists that it has no plans to run a candidate for the presidency, though any broad-backed opposition "unity" candidate will obviously need the brotherhood's approval.

But he goes further and says the brotherhood will not even seek a majority in parliament – a far cry from the predictions of many Washington-based analysts that it is waiting in the wings to seize control of the most populous Arab country.

"If we can build a wide coalition instead, this would be good," Erian says. "This is our strategy for many reasons: not to frighten others, inside or outside, and also because this is a country destroyed, destroyed by Mubarak and his family – why would the rebuilding task be only for us? It's not our task alone, it's the job of all Egyptians." He adds: "The Muslim Brothers are a special case because we are not seeking power through violent or military means like other Islamic organisations that might be violent. We are a peaceful organisation; we work according to the constitution and the law."
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OMGz Islamic radicals taking over the ME!
 
What is the point of the Muslim Brotherhood if it is not interested in gaining political power?
 
Enough talking about the MB, israel or anyone else guys..

The only problem now is Omar Solaiman and the senior army officers probably
 
They're the most organised opposition group to Mubarak's autocracy, right now they share the same goal of every other Egyptian opposition group - get Mubarak to feck off.

Yes their ultimate goal is political power as is the case with every political party on the globe, but the important thing to note here is that they themselves admit they're not capable of obtaining a majority in an election, and have also dismissed the idea of submitting any presidential candidates. As far as I know they've only expressed a desire to be a part of some power-sharing coalition. (cue holyland rushing in with Hezbollah comparison)

This whole fear of them taking over and radicalising Egypt has been blown away out of proportion. Go speak to the Egyptians, heck ask Avatar whether he fears that the MB are a large threat to secularism and religious coexistance.
 
Avatar said:
Enough talking about the MB, israel or anyone else guys..

The only problem now is Omar Solaiman and the senior army officers probably
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I heard something about Soliman threatening to use military force to stop the protests if they fail to stop. Got any news on that?
 
RedKaos said:
I heard something about Soliman threatening to use military force to stop the protests if they fail to stop. Got any news on that?
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he said vague words.. like warning if discussions were not started then the only other route is a coup..but not a military coup rather governing being in the hands of an incapable institution !!!

Make of that what you want.. no one gets what he means exactly but all agrees that he's threatening the people.

Don't think the army can fire a bullet against us otherwise it would be the saddest day in the history of Egypt and I don't know where the country would go from there..

BTW, threats could be indicative of his weak stance
 
RedKaos said:
They're the most organised opposition group to Mubarak's autocracy, right now they share the same goal of every other Egyptian opposition group - get Mubarak to feck off.

Yes their ultimate goal is political power as is the case with every political party on the globe, but the important thing to note here is that they themselves admit they're not capable of obtaining a majority in an election, and have also dismissed the idea of submitting any presidential candidates. As far as I know they've only expressed a desire to be a part of some power-sharing coalition. (cue holyland rushing in with Hezbollah comparison)

This whole fear of them taking over and radicalising Egypt has been blown away out of proportion. Go speak to the Egyptians, heck ask Avatar whether he fears that the MB are a large threat to secularism and religious coexistance.
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I agree that the risk of the MB finding itself in a position of serious political power is overstated and the reporting of the possibility is largely based on fear mongering, but at the same time I think now is as good a time as any for international and domestic resistance against an organisation that advocates the instilment of the totalitarian Sharia into the Egyptian political and social system.
 
RedKaos said:
Interesting interview with a senior leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Essam el-Erian. Here's what he had to say regarding The MB.



OMGz Islamic radicals taking over the ME!
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That sounds really gay.
 
Fearless said:


Ayatollah Khomeini BEFORE the victory of the revolution (February 11, 1979)

"Personal desire, age, and my health do not allow me to personally have a role in running the country after the fall of the current system." -- Interview with the Associated Press, Paris, November 7, 1978

"I have repeatedly said that neither my desire nor my age nor my position allows me to govern." -- Interview with the United Press, Paris, November 8, 1978

"I don't want to have the power or the government in my hand; I am not interested in personal power." -- Interview with The Guardian newspaper, Paris, November 16, 1978

"I don't want to be the leader of the Islamic Republic; I don't want to have the government or the power in my hands. I only guide the people in selecting the system." -- Interview with an Austrian TV reporter, Paris, November 16, 1978

"It is the Iranian people who have to select their own capable and trustworthy individuals and give them the responsibilities. However, personally, I can't accept any special role or responsibility." -- Interview with Le Journal newspaper, Paris, November 28, 1978

"After the Shah's departure from Iran, I will not become a president nor accept any other leadership role. Just like before, I limit my activities only to guiding and directing the people." -- Interview with Le Monde newspaper, Paris, January 9, 1979
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RedKaos said:
Interesting interview with a senior leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Essam el-Erian. Here's what he had to say regarding The MB.



OMGz Islamic radicals taking over the ME!
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Unless the above quotes are fabricated you'd excuse those who take el-Erian's words with a pinch of salt.
 
Protesters in the streets around the parliament since yesterday with a sign handing on its door " Closed till the regime is down"

organized labor in several institutions and regions allover Egypt went on strike

More pressure from us. Soliman on the other hand warns of coup d'etat
 
rednev said:
I agree that the risk of the MB finding itself in a position of serious political power is overstated and the reporting of the possibility is largely based on fear mongering, but at the same time I think now is as good a time as any for international and domestic resistance against an organisation that advocates the instilment of the totalitarian Sharia into the Egyptian political and social system.
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I don't want the MB to inherit power as much as you don't but that's what democracy is. We have no say in how the Egyptians select their government and so long as they remain with legal and constitutional boundaries then we have no right to object.

Democracy isn't always a bed of roses, you're always going to get all sorts contesting political power.
 
holyland red said:
Unless the above quotes are fabricated you'd excuse those who take el-Erian's words with a pinch of salt.
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Of course, but again this is still nothing like Iran 1979. For starters there is no Khomeini figurehead in Egypt right now. The protests themselves were also initiated and further materialised by the secular youth, trade union leaders, and now the professional classes have joined in too. It's a total people's revolution and the MB are only a fraction of it....one that has joined the party a little late too for that matter.
 
feck the MB.. they won't rule for the foreseeable future .. take it from an Egyptian, Period
 
Avatar said:
feck the MB.. they won't rule for the foreseeable future .. take it from an Egyptian, Period
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There you have it guys, spoken from an Egyptian...a Muslim one too. Now enough with these "Islamic radicalisation" fears....that is if that really was the real reason the west feared a democratic Egypt.
 
RedKaos said:
Of course, but again this is still nothing like Iran 1979. For starters there is no Khomeini figurehead in Egypt right now. The protests themselves were also initiated and further materialised by the secular youth, trade union leaders, and now the professional classes have joined in too. It's a total people's revolution and the MB are only a fraction of it....one that has joined the party a little late too for that matter.
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No analogy is perfect, but given the chance I'm sure the MB will seize everything they can. I would like to share your optimism, and hope that Avatar's view reflect that of the Egyptian majority. They deserve better than Mubarak, just like every human being deserves better than the deal most Arabs get.
 
holyland red said:
No analogy is perfect, but given the chance I'm sure the MB will seize everything they can. I would like to share your optimism, and hope that Avatar's view reflect that of the Egyptian majority. They deserve better than Mubarak, just like every human being deserves better than the deal most Arabs get.
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How can you be sure of that? And regardless, even if their goals are a coup on Egypt then it's not like they're anywhere near capable of it.

Another good essay on the MB worth reading:

Anzalone: The Muslim Brotherhood Myth | Informed Comment
 
A reminder of the present make of the demonstrators; they are not demanding an Islamic state or a Caliphate, but demand democracy, elections and transparency, all alien concepts to al Qaeda, Islamic fundamentalism and Iran's revolution.

However, situations change and no one knows the make up of a future government. I can see conflicts such as the Gaza war and the recent Flotilla event radicalising voters. All this will bring extra much needed responsibilities on surrounding nations to behave in a way so radicals do not fester.
 
RedKaos said:
How can you be sure of that? And regardless, even if their goals are a coup on Egypt then it's not like they're anywhere near capable of it.

Another good essay on the MB worth reading:

Anzalone: The Muslim Brotherhood Myth | Informed Comment
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You'll find that in none of my posts I claimed to be sure of the outcome of free elections in Egypt. It is a worry though, one which it'd foolish of the experts, analysts and caftards to dismiss. No disrespect to Avatar, but even Egypytians can't be certain in respect to the political power of opposition factions after decades of authoritarian rule.
 
Sultan said:
A reminder of the present make of the demonstrators; they are not demanding an Islamic state or a Caliphate, but demand democracy, elections and transparency, all alien concepts to al Qaeda, Islamic fundamentalism and Iran's revolution.

However, situations change and no one knows the make up of a future government. I can see conflicts such as the Gaza war and the recent Flotilla event radicalising voters. All this will bring extra much needed responsibilities on surrounding nations to behave in a way so radicals do not fester.
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In other words, Egypt will remain secular and democratic as long as Israel doesn't defend itself.

Considering how Egyptian security forces behaved over the last 2-3 weeks facing their own I'd say "surrounding nations" have shown tremendous restraint under more demanding circumstances.
 
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