The ultimatums were in in the form of threats. The Taliban had asked for evidence which was a sensible request, the US dismissed it and chose to flex its military muscles instead.
A people's Revolution
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The ultimatums were in in the form of threats. The Taliban had asked for evidence which was a sensible request, the US dismissed it and chose to flex its military muscles instead.
Actually the raids had probably undermined anti-Taliban efforts; many Anti-Taliban groups such as RAWA and even the US favourite Abdul Haq himself had insisted the bombings stop on the grounds that they underminded efforts to overthrow the Taliban from within:
Comment: US bombs are boosting the Taliban | World news | The Guardian
A NATION CHALLENGED: NEXT CHAPTER; Afghan Gathering in Pakistan Backs Future Role for King - New York Times
What other form were they going to be in after 9/11? They hadn't worked up to that point with the threat of covert aid to the Northern Alliance or other enemies of the Taliban. There was enough proof to convict four of his followers, including his personal secretary, in a trial before 9/11. What other proof do they want?
Once 9/11 happened though, the US wasn't going to sit there and play nice with the people who had harbored a terrorist who helped orchestrate the 1998 bombings, the USS Cole attack, and the 9/11 attacks.
To try an get this damn thread back on topic.. What happened/is happening is Tunisia? Is the guy who took over after the PM still president?
Edit: From the Guardians live blog:
Edit: From the Guardians live blog:
Just goes to show how ridiculous the narrative in the news is.
If they really did have the evidence, then why were they so reluctant to exchange it for an extradition request as the Taliban had requested. If the Taliban had still refused AFTER being given concrete evidence- then and only then might an armed intervention have been necessary. Regardless, I don't think the most responsible solution was to launch a devastating bombing campaign, in fact the first few weeks following the bombing campaign wasn't even aimed at toppling the Taliban, it was just Uncle Sam flexing his muscles and giving a profound message to the rest of the world.
Interestingly, almost a year after 9/11 the head of the FBI Robert Mueller claimed that they had no real evidence over who was responsible for the attacks.
The current acting president Fouad Mebazaa is to hold a care-taker role until he is constitutionally obliged to hold an election within 3 months or so. So the next advancement is to see whether Mebazaa honours this constitutional obligation.
Erm, didn't Bin Laden claim credit for 9/11 on several broadcasts?
Bush team 'agreed plan to attack the Taliban the day before September 11' | World news | The Guardian
Even if 9/11 never occurred Afghanistan would have been invaded so you guys can stop with this hypothetical conversation.
Which is my point entirely. Bin Laden didn't admit involvement until after the invasion, but there was enough evidence of his involvement in 1998 Kenya/Tanzania and the USS Cole to have him extradited. Apparently the evidence used to convict bin Laden's associates and secretary wasn't enough for the Taliban. Had 9/11 not happened, there would have been covert action taken to try to push for his extradition before ultimately a US military attack. The Taliban wanted evidence for his 9/11 connections, but the US wanted him for other things in addition to that.
Mubarak is 82 years old. An old, stinking, dying man, yet still desperately holding on to power. Absolutely fascinating.
The fact that he admitted responsibility means I don't care. There was a major international terrorist at large, they knew he was there, what he'd done, the sort of thing he was planning, and they decided to get him. I'm no fan of America's foreign policy but the fact that he managed to do what he did suggests they were right to want to do everything in their power to make them give him up.
Yeah, the Americans had no choice but to go into Afghanistan. I'd have done the same thing then, and the same thing now with hindsight as well.
Agreed, the one significant difference would have been not to lose sight in 2002 and realise years later how dire the situation on the ground was.
Yes Iraq fecked Afghanistan. It was going alright until then. Of course it may have gone tits up anyway, it seems to be a fairly impossible place to fight. But they took their eye off the ball in a manner reminiscent of Fergie with that racehorse in the Djemba-Djemba years.
It still amuses me that our club was nearly torn apart over horse sperm.
Anyone notice the add? Who is interested?
It has changed now, it was sign on to the Royal Marines.
It has changed now, it was sign on to the Royal Marines.
Wait what? This seems to have been forgotten by my childhood, what happened?
The whole debacle of who owned what, of the racehorse between Ferguson and John Magnier that threatened to boil over.
Well at least we've managed to move this thread back on topic...
So...the picture on the BBC's main page is of some guy holding up a sign that says "Game Over" in reference to Mubarak. I think he's trying to find the coins for more lives as the clock counts down.Er, it DID boil over. It's the principal reason that Glazer owns Man Utd.
Good point, but I meant in reference to Magnier trying to fire Ferguson.
You invaded Afghanistan?
The invasion was a clumsy, short-sighted, tactical nightmare with very faulty reasoning. The premise of Afghanistan requiring a regime change in order to stop terrorism is the first faulty premise. It was NOT the Taliban who invited Bin Laden into the country but Abdul Rasool Sayyaf, a Northern Alliance commander who is currently on the CIA's payroll list, sitting in parliament and is expected to become the next speaker. Secondly, the Taliban's control over Afghanistan was illusionary and any attempt made by Mullah Omar to secure Bin Laden's transfer outside of the country would not prevail. As we have clearly understood at present, it was Pakistan we should have spoken with. They are the ones who are controlling the Afghans and they were the ones who told them to say no. Thirdly, the tribal and network of different groups and parties tells me that no 'one' group had enough sway to take Bin Laden out. So, even if the Mullah from Kandahar wants Bin Laden to leave, the Mullah from Khost might have other plans.
If the US used its head with a combination of precision air strikes and excellent diplomacy, Bin Laden would have been in court already.
I don't think he tried to do that. He wasn't about to give him £30M though. And I think it pissed him off enough to sell Man Utd when he could turn a profit.
You invaded Afghanistan?
The invasion was a clumsy, short-sighted, tactical nightmare with very faulty reasoning. The premise of Afghanistan requiring a regime change in order to stop terrorism is the first faulty premise. It was NOT the Taliban who invited Bin Laden into the country but Abdul Rasool Sayyaf, a Northern Alliance commander who is currently on the CIA's payroll list, sitting in parliament and is expected to become the next speaker. Secondly, the Taliban's control over Afghanistan was illusionary and any attempt made by Mullah Omar to secure Bin Laden's transfer outside of the country would not prevail. As we have clearly understood at present, it was Pakistan we should have spoken with. They are the ones who are controlling the Afghans and they were the ones who told them to say no. Thirdly, the tribal and network of different groups and parties tells me that no 'one' group had enough sway to take Bin Laden out. So, even if the Mullah from Kandahar wants Bin Laden to leave, the Mullah from Khost might have other plans.
If the US used its head with a combination of precision air strikes and excellent diplomacy, Bin Laden would have been in court already.
The Power of Nightmares - the politicians only rallying call now is to save us from the this threat to stoke unfound fears its the only way they legitimise and maintain control.
What?....Sorry, what? ...There's been no 'necessary war' since the 40s Brian.
This is a fantastically uniquely right wing statement. One I want would love to in someway affect you personally. Brain should "necessarily" go to war himself, because I"m sure he'd love it. Or maybe Brian's son. Or someone that Brian actually cares about, rather than all these waves and waves of unimportant poor people who's deaths he can dismiss as "necessary"......And thus we understand why I use the "bad guy" reference. Because the good guys
War was necessary in the Falklands to prevent the fall of British territory to an authoritarian regime.
War was necessary in Afghanistan to prevent it being used as a base from which to launch major terrorist attacks against British civilian life.
To deny that we were not out of credible options for either is absolutely ludicrous. Plus I was establishing the principle, if war is your only option to resolve something then you must do it - you mentioned the 40s, the governments of McDonald and Baldwin out of fear from WWI, the electorate and fiscal concerns allowed the power of Hitler to rise. It was evident that we would never be able to control him, when he marched into the Rhineland in 1936 we should have gone to war which would have been over very quickly. As after all the German formations that marched in were under orders to retreat without hesitation should French forces show up, it was said to be the single scariest moment of Hitler's life prior to 1939. Avoiding war then almost cost Britain its sovereignty and its future.
Egyptian State Media: Al Jazeera Banned.
I can confirm that, Aljazeera disappeared off the Nilesat, Arabs can still watch it on Arabsat though, and Hotbird too!
hot bird
Has the US just abandoned Mubarak?
Hillary Clinton : we want an Orderly Transition to democracy in Egypt, a mere reshuffle of the govt is not enough.
Sounds like, move aside old man, let the Army take control, and then hold elections in a years time.
@SANF - pics or didn't happen
Hillary Clinton : we want an Orderly Transition to democracy in Egypt, a mere reshuffle of the govt is not enough.
Sounds like, move aside old man, let the Army take control, and then hold elections in a years time.
@SANF - pics or didn't happen
Has the US just abandoned Mubarak?
Hillary Clinton : we want an Orderly Transition to democracy in Egypt, a mere reshuffle of the govt is not enough.
Sounds like, move aside old man, let the Army take control, and then hold elections in a years time.
@SANF - pics or didn't happen
Puppet MK Mubarak has run its course and needs to be replaced, they just need to groom someone else for the next 30 years.
Has the US just abandoned Mubarak?
Hillary Clinton : we want an Orderly Transition to democracy in Egypt, a mere reshuffle of the govt is not enough.
Sounds like, move aside old man, let the Army take control, and then hold elections in a years time.
@SANF - pics or didn't happen
hehe
The message from the US to its ME "allies" could not be clearer.
I wonder if that applies to Saudi Arabia as well.
Progress even if it is incremental is something to welcome. Obviously Egypt isn't going to have free and fair elections tomorrow, and be this wonderful model of democracy for all other arab/north african countries to emulate.
But it's better than what the current reality, plus one thing we know for sure now, His son won't be 'succeeding' him no matter what happens.
But it's better than what the current reality, plus one thing we know for sure now, His son won't be 'succeeding' him no matter what happens.
Wouldn't surprise me if that king of theirs is shitting in his galabiyah
He's probably been doing it for the past few years anyway, but that's beside the point.
I wouldn't bet on that at this point in time.
The brotherhood are not coming into power. The military will take up control, and by the time any elections are called, the other forces will be a lot more organized.
I think if the US really felt the Muslim Brotherhood were going to the future of Egypt, the public commentary from the US State Dept would be a lot more restrained.
I mean Hillary basically told Hosni to feck off.
Breaking News: all opposition parties/entities(this includes the Brotherhood) have decided to nominate Elbaradei as Interim President and form a government under him.
Not sure if the Military is going to pay any notice to this, but it's the latest development.
Not sure if the Military is going to pay any notice to this, but it's the latest development.