Berbatov

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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
The FA's known hatred for us might have something to do with his confidence IMO. It might rub off on the PL.
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Unlikely. The PL, unlike the FA, wants to keep its big boys happy. Liverpool and United (especially together) are far, far more important to the Premier League than Tottenham.

Tottenham arn't in danger of striking a TV deal of their own, for one thing.
 
Count Duckula said:
That doesn't hold water, I'm afraid. We're still publically naming a player we don't own, whether we've bid or not. The problem here isn't so much us saying we've made a bid, but that we said we're completely confident the deal will be done, and very soon at that.
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Don't you find it fishy though for Fergie to come out and say we've made a bid for a who would improve us a great deal, a player he distinctly refused to name. Then suddenly a day later "name the player"?
 
Count Duckula said:
I think he did say it, though. Surely even Spurs cannot be stupid enough to go to the Premier League with a source that they're unsure about. They'd look like complete idiots, and they're always so concerned with their image.
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I'm assuming the guys who put out that website got the quotes from Fergies own mouth, but I can't be sure. I'm assuming The Sun took them from that website via RedCafe as I very much doubt Custis happened to be browsing United.no for the short period they were posted there.

I don't see how Levy can be so sure that Fergie said these things to go as far as reporting United to the PL because of them. If Fergie had talked to The Sun and the The Sun had printed the quotes as being part of an "Exclusive interview" then you would have something you could trust a little better. You could get The Sun to produce recordings/notes from the interview,

But even The Sun don't claim the quotes came directly to them from the mouth of Fergie. If The Sun had explained where they got the quotes then Levy would look an idiot for getting upset by quotes taken from some threads on RedCafe

If Levys report to the FA/PL is just a photocopy of this article in The Sun then he will be a laughing stock.


WE SHOULD ALL BE PROUD OF REDCAFES SMALL PART IN THE TRANSFER WARS! :lol:
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
The rule is there. The thing is a player is legally not allowed to speak to another club unless given express permission by his club. Regardless of inquiries or bids.

The club is with in its' rights not to bother telling the player about any bid unless such a clause exist in his contract. Because once a bid is dismissed, the player is not supposed to contact the bidding side. Whether he might be interested in a move or not. Because of this the only alternative left for interested clubs to let a player know they want him is either the Galiani REAL Marca route or his agent contacting them.


hat would be nice. But it an never works that way. Because if a player wants to go and his club says hell no. Anmosity will remain. Because the player will be unhappy while the bidding club being told to go away rarely takes no for an answer. In a respectful fashion. That is why there is always a media ruckus. Unless the bidding club goes out of it's way to keep it's bidding secret.
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but that's the thing. there is a risk/reward analysis that the clubs directors will do. it is up to them to decide if it is worth keeping an unhappy player. conversely a player can then rightly gauge the situation and if he wants to leave, can put in transfer requests, pout, refuse to train, go the gallas route and say 'i'll put in own goals', etc to get out.

keeping unhappy players is detrimental. in some cases, after speaking to the gaffer, the player stays (or the gaffer feels that a pouting player can be 'handled")

this whole spurs thing is stupid, because martin jol even said last year that berbatov always was thinking about united. this isn't something new. levy and ramos know that berbatov doesn't want to be at spurs. this is just to cover his arse from the spurs fans.

i still maintain that there should no 'tapping up' rules. players who get their head turned are interested in other opportunities regardless if there is interest in them or not.

it is why there are never stories of scholes being 'tapped up'. or g. neville. because clubs know it would be useless to 'tap' them up.

it is the responsibility of the respective clubs to keep their players happy and to gauge their situations and deal with any misgivings.
 
how about this Glaston, oohs hypocrisy from spurs as well.

The Spanish club's president, Jose Maria Del Nido, confirmed he would report the matter to FIFA and UEFA.

Ramos resigned from his post at Sevilla on Friday in order to replace Martin Jol in the White Hart Lane hot-seat.

"I can assure you that we at Sevilla will pour all of our energy and all of our force into making sure that Tottenham pay the consequences of this situation, a situation that they have illegitimately provoked," Del Nido said.

"We will do everything in our power and use all the means at our disposal to make sure of that.

"Here in Spain we are not used to treachery existing between clubs. Nowhere in European football has something like this happened before with the season underway.

"I will leave it for Spurs and their fans to take a look at themselves and define their behaviour."
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Spoonov said:
Basically, he can't hold onto them.

Sorry Spur fans.
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Like we can't hold to Ronaldo. Oh wait a minute. We are holding onto Ronaldo.

If Levy wants to hold onto Berbatov and Keane he can do so. Spurs are in a strong position with respect to Berbatov's contract given that they have a two year option on top of his current deal.

I'm guessing this deal isn't happening. Or at least if it is then the fee is going to be £30m +. And similarly, Liverpool will have to pay in excess of £20m if they want Keane.
 
VoetbalWizard said:
but that's the thing. there is a risk/reward analysis that the clubs directors will do. it is up to them to decide if it is worth keeping an unhappy player. conversely a player can then rightly gauge the situation and if he wants to leave, can put in transfer requests, pout, refuse to train, go the gallas route and say 'i'll put in own goals', etc to get out.

keeping unhappy players is detrimental. in some cases, after speaking to the gaffer, the player stays (or the gaffer feels that a pouting player can be 'handled")

this whole spurs thing is stupid, because martin jol even said last year that berbatov always was thinking about united. this isn't something new. levy and ramos know that berbatov doesn't want to be at spurs. this is just to cover his arse from the spurs fans.

i still maintain that there should no 'tapping up' rules. players who get their head turned are interested in other opportunities regardless if there is interest in them or not.

it is why there are never stories of scholes being 'tapped up'. or g. neville. because clubs know it would be useless to 'tap' them up.

it is the responsibility of the respective clubs to keep their players happy and to gauge their situations and deal with any misgivings.
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I whole heartedly agree. But most clubs would never. It would make it harder for most of them to inflate players tranfser fees.
 
kiddaa said:
why will it drop Berbatov price? whats the connection between Berbatov skills, and Levy's stupidity?
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After he makes a fool of himself..he wont have the leverage to drag up prices for two very unhappy and unsettled players..who will most likely hand in transfer requests.to move to two clubs Levy has reported stupidly..clubs whom out of being annoyed will play hard ball bidding
 
Just when things were starting to look up.

Guess theres no chance of the press conference vid from SA !?
 
Glaston why have you not answered my question on if Spurs are a selling club and if this is not partly a front by Levy due to the impending movement of the players?
 
Brad said:
I'm sorry, what aspect of that was bollocks?

Your two main strikers want to sign for United and Liverpool, and not play for Spurs. Lovely feeling eh?
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What are the chances of him throwing 'ronaldos madrid dream' at you/us?
 
When the Ronaldo story broke, the rule was stated that the buying club must inform the potential selling club about its interest in the player... not that the buying club has to be granted permission to talk to the player. Bizarre rule, but possibly right.

As far as I know, there have been no United quotes about Berbatov, or evidence of contact between the club and him or his agent, before we made the bid on Wednesday, so I think even if SAF said the things quoted in The Sun, we're legally in the clear. I'd be surprised if it were otherwise since we are legally very, very careful in transfer dealings.

That said, we are following a slightly similar process to Real in its pursuit of Ronaldo, albeit not so ridiculously continuous.
 
KeyserSoze said:
That does not mean you have to sell him, we turned downed requests from RVN numerous times. Would saying they are not for sale and Spurs wont be bullied not help reinforce this line? As a Spurs fan does it not seem that as those comments about the players were also thrown in he is just trying to stop the club coming across like a selling club? A front for the fans to make it look like they did all they could but had to let the players go like Carrick? If I was a Spurs fan I would have wanted him to just leave the statement as an accusation on our conduct.
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No club ever has to sell any player, unless they desperately need the money, which Spurs don't.

It's a question of choice: is it better to keep to force an unhappy but very talented player to stay in the hope that they'll change their minds and play with full commitment and passion? Or is it better to sell them at peak price and bring in a replacement who, even if they prove to be less talented, will be hungry and motivated to do the very best they can and not disturb the wider team morale?

You seem to think that the former option is best, if only for the sake of club 'prestige'. Personally I say move on, make the buying club pay through the nose, take the money and use it to improve the team beyond what it would have been even if the player had stayed.

And btw, you did let RVN leave in the end.

KeyserSoze said:
Yes, was. Just like you are taking words from Ferguson relayed through papers as gospel, im taking words from Fergies mouth on the Ronaldo situation as gospel.
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As I say, the summer is not over.
 
giggs-beckham said:
What are the chances of him throwing 'ronaldos madrid dream' at you/us?
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High

But then we're talking about one United player, and not our entire forward line. And we absolutely would not sanction his sale to another Premiership club, which isn't the case with Spurs. Which puts them in their place really. Ronaldo would be taking a downward step leaving the current European champions, Berbatov taking a big step up. Keane would be taking a step up too, though he wouldn't be winning any more trophies...
 
Real tapped our player. We complained with FIFA and they told us that Real did nothing wrong, quite contrary, we should let Ronaldo go because he is a slave.Therefore what is wrong in taking FIFA's advice and try to free another slave?

It was the UEFA and the FIFA who set the standard not us.

"However, when a player's head is turned and their commitment is absent, particularly when they occupy key positions such as that of striker, they become a negative influence in a team dressing room in which they were once a positive addition and influence.


"This is the situation we now have on our hands, with both Dimitar and Robbie having made it clear that they wish to leave for Manchester Utd and Liverpool respectively"



This particular bit made me laugh. Dont tell me that it was SAF's words who enlightened Berbatov that Manchester United were interested in him? Or maybe Levy is trying to justify the sale of these Spurs best players?
 
GlastonSpur said:
You seem to think that the former option is best, if only for the sake of club 'prestige'. Personally I say move on, make the buying club pay through the nose, take the money and use it to improve the team beyond what it would have been even if the player had stayed.
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It depends on the player. In our case Ronaldo is an unbelievably talented lad who apparantly wants to join Real Madrid, but he won't have a problem if he is 'forced' to stay at United (for maybe one or two more years) since we are a big(ger club than Spurs) club and he can expect to win trophies and gain personal glory.
In your case we're talking about two very talented players who want to move to a bigger club to play Champions League football and have the chance to win something different than the League Cup. You can't say 'the latter option is best', it differs from situation to situation.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Ha! Don't change the bet.:smirk: Our bet is on Levy looking a right fool by the end of this saga.
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I had said:

"...... It won't stop Spurs from making any Prem buyers of these two players pay through the nose until they bleed."

To which you replied:

"The fact that Spurs have spent over 50 million this summer plus the fact Levy will look like a fool over those Sun quotes will."

Which seems to me a clear indication that you reckon MUFC will now get Berbatov for a reduced price - no? That's the bet I'm referring to and which I assumed you also had in mind - a fixed transfer figure bet, with no possible argument as to the result of the bet.

Betting on a subjective intangible like 'Levy will be left with egg on his face' is clearly not a realistic focus for a bet - how would either you or me ever prove beyond doubt or argument as to who had won?
 
Brad said:
... Your two main strikers want to sign for United and Liverpool, and not play for Spurs. Lovely feeling eh?
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I'm sure you are delighted by Ronaldo's passion for your club.
 
Glaston.

You say its a question of choice but Levy's comments seem to lean towards the fact that Keane and Berbatov are putting pressure on the club to sell them. Its not about prestige, its about Levy wrapping up the comments about the players availability up with an attack on Fergie. You talk of being unhappy and not having hunger but Berbatov did well last year after displaying his feelings before. Also does Keane now strike you as the sort of player to act up just because Liverpool are interested... im sure he would act in a professional manner. The fact is that if a reasonable price is not reached you will be stuck with them anyway. You have also been on here long enough to know the reasons behind RVN's move and what has happened since he left.

I suppose the question is what you expect as a Spurs fan because you are not going to get into the top four by selling your best players thats for sure. Especially to your "rivals".The idea of buying young players is to transition them into the side alongside established ones.
 
GlastonSpur said:
As I say, the summer is not over.
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Do you not see the hypocrisy in ignoring Fergies direct comments that Ronaldo is not leaving but then reacting to Fergie comments from some obscure website, which managed to find its way on the desk of Neil Custis?
 
If we've been tapping up Berbatov the club is going to look like a right bunch of Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime after making a fuss over Madrid and Ronaldo. I hope we've not been that stupid though.
 
Well to be honest i couldnt see that one coming. Let's wait and see what we say about this.
 
KeyserSoze said:
... You say its a question of choice but Levy's comments seem to lean towards the fact that Keane and Berbatov are putting pressure on the club to sell them. .Its not about prestige, its about Levy wrapping up the comments about the players availability up with an attack on Fergie. ..
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Neither player has put in for a transfer request, so the 'pressure' from them is not all that great even if it's clear they'd ideally like to leave. In any case, the club has long made it clear - with regard to Berbatov for example - that it won't stand in the way of any player who wants to leave provided a sufficiently high transfer fee is paid.

Ramos said this months ago, long before any of this stuff: somewhere on RedCafe I provided the quote and link, but I can't be arsed to find it now.

So the club has consistently said it doesn't want to keep any unhappy player - why would or should they change stance this now? And it's long been clear that Spurs have been preparing for Berbatov's departure since at least a year ago - the signing of Bent last summer was one step in that process. Fergie's comments are neither here nor there in this respect and Levy has no need to 'wrap anything up' with them.

KeyserSoze said:
The fact is that if a reasonable price is not reached you will be stuck with them anyway.
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Yes, so what's new? It's all down to what is 'reasonable'. Levy has long set his benchmark - he won't budge, especially after all this nonsense.

KeyserSoze said:
I suppose the question is what you expect as a Spurs fan because you are not going to get into the top four by selling your best players thats for sure. Especially to your "rivals".The idea of buying young players is to transition them into the side alongside established ones.
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I've already recently set out in another thread (I think it was another thread anyhow, but it could have been this one) how it will be quite possible for Spurs to lose both Keane and Berbatov and end up with a stronger team, playing in a different formation (4-2-3-1). I'm not going to repeat it all here, but 45m goes a long way.
 
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