Amazing achievements.
Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."
- Thread starter Jacky Quacky
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Isn't it just normal, common here, on any players?
One missplaced pass by Rooney, Young, Smalling, Blind, Rojo or Carrick, Caf will want them killed.
I am saying we should expect better than 6th or 7th.
I agree with his overall point about the mentality but I'm not sure going out to the public is a good idea.
This whole players need to show "passion" and want to "bleed for the shirt" type stuff is why we laugh at the type of management John Sitton showed in that infamous(or at least I assumed we were all laughing) but, people now seem to think that is only thing our club needs right now.
Really within a day Smalling and Shaw went from two of the most liked players on this forum to weak willed loses. And Jones who people have insulted for over a year for the audacity of being injured is now being praised for playing through injury. This place is amazing no sarcasm.
Smalling has been heavily criticised by many for long? Jones didn't play through injury he lacked match fitness.
Unless he is looking to encourage those players whom he is speaking about to buck up or get out.
It is possible to do that in a situation that is not a press conference.
That's Jose's amazing power.
I am quite certain that Rooney has the will and determination to play through any pain, injury, or less than 100%, in every match. Jose shall start Rooney every match from now on!
Second leg vs Bayern Munich in 2010, CL final in 2008... No one would question Rooney commitment, giving 100% of what he has at that moment and the desire to always play. The problem with Rooney is the opposite. Sometimes he needs to realize he's better not playing for the benefit of the team.
There is no problem. Jose loves that, the kind of player Jose admires.
He is. He did want to buy Rooney in Moyes' season.
If Rooney can be selfless in a positive way and follow the instruction and don't abuse his captain status, I don't see he has problem with Mourinho at all as his attitude is highly regarded by Mourinho.
That's why I said Jose should start Rooney every match, based on the logic Caf condemning Shaw and Smalling now.
It's simply not. If Messi and Ronaldo aren't good enough to afford the freedom not to give it their all and adapt, none of our players are.
Fans contribute to some of these problems.
When players leak stuff about manager, half the fandom believe that the manager is wrong and doesn't know how to manage the modern footballer. The press gets on the manager's back.
When a player doesn't play, like Mhikitaryan, fans complain and criticise manager for being clueless. They demand explanation regarding why and criticise poor management.
When the manager explains why, fans criticise the manager. It's the manager's fault because he chose the player, or stop throwing players under the bus.
When manager airs some grievances in public, he gets criticised because he should keep everything behind closed doors but everyone else is running to the media. It is par for the course.
When managers or the club keep quiet the fans speculate, criticise, demands clarity, etc. When something is said, fans go all sensitive and touchy.
This is the 3rd managerial change since SAF departed. Match-going fans are very supportive of the team but how about the armchair ones and Internet warriors?
After 3 changes and the club is still not right, maybe it is time to suspect that the problem is NOT the manager.
I am not a big fan of Mourinho personally, but I would still ask that fans have more patience and give him the support he needs.
When players leak stuff about manager, half the fandom believe that the manager is wrong and doesn't know how to manage the modern footballer. The press gets on the manager's back.
When a player doesn't play, like Mhikitaryan, fans complain and criticise manager for being clueless. They demand explanation regarding why and criticise poor management.
When the manager explains why, fans criticise the manager. It's the manager's fault because he chose the player, or stop throwing players under the bus.
When manager airs some grievances in public, he gets criticised because he should keep everything behind closed doors but everyone else is running to the media. It is par for the course.
When managers or the club keep quiet the fans speculate, criticise, demands clarity, etc. When something is said, fans go all sensitive and touchy.
This is the 3rd managerial change since SAF departed. Match-going fans are very supportive of the team but how about the armchair ones and Internet warriors?
After 3 changes and the club is still not right, maybe it is time to suspect that the problem is NOT the manager.
I am not a big fan of Mourinho personally, but I would still ask that fans have more patience and give him the support he needs.
Then you're disagreeing with my point. Rooney performance nowadays may not warrant as starter for us every games like Rooney wants to. But he's a player with the right attitude and a good squadie with the burning fighting spirit. This helps pushing his position competitors and the team overall.
Only if Rooney wants to start every game despite under performing, then that's a problem. This is different problem from not willing fight issue Shaw and Smalling are suspected to commit. Rooney (previously ?) abuse vs Shaw & Smalling's slacking.
No way I suggest Rooney should start every game again. His playing time should be managed
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I am confused about how Smalling got dragged into this? Can someone clear it up for me. I thought he did play injured at Chelsea, which tells me he did 'suffer with a little pain' or whatever. Has he refused to play since then?
We need to buy players with the United mentality. Not just "good" players.
Martial strikes me as being very weak mentally. Threw a hissy fit over Zlatan taking his number 9 when he should be honored to wear Giggs' iconic number 11. Besides all that, it should be about the crest on the front.
A lot of people are slating Jose for keeping Mkhitaryan out of the team and isolating Schweinsteiger. But has it ever occured to you guys that those guys don't have the right attitude in training? Schweinsteiger still lives in Germany! Mkhitaryan picked up a little knock on international duty and milked it probably. Same goes for Shaw and Smalling if Jose's comments are anything to go by.
Seriously, the likes of Ronaldo would play with one leg hanging off. We need fighters.
I couldn't give a toss who Mourinho gets rid of, to be honest. As long as he does it with the intention of benefiting the team and winning trophies. Yes, he sold De Bruyne and Lukaku at Chelsea... but he still won the Premier League. And would have turned it around at Chelsea if they didn't sack him.
Martial strikes me as being very weak mentally. Threw a hissy fit over Zlatan taking his number 9 when he should be honored to wear Giggs' iconic number 11. Besides all that, it should be about the crest on the front.
A lot of people are slating Jose for keeping Mkhitaryan out of the team and isolating Schweinsteiger. But has it ever occured to you guys that those guys don't have the right attitude in training? Schweinsteiger still lives in Germany! Mkhitaryan picked up a little knock on international duty and milked it probably. Same goes for Shaw and Smalling if Jose's comments are anything to go by.
Seriously, the likes of Ronaldo would play with one leg hanging off. We need fighters.
I couldn't give a toss who Mourinho gets rid of, to be honest. As long as he does it with the intention of benefiting the team and winning trophies. Yes, he sold De Bruyne and Lukaku at Chelsea... but he still won the Premier League. And would have turned it around at Chelsea if they didn't sack him.
Just playing the devil's advocate here, how would Mourinho know that Shaw's pain levels couldn't prevent him from playing?
We have a special chart called Phil Injury Jones to measure all that.
Jones happened to be able to play today so no excuse for some minor pain toleration excuse. I love the "probably". Mkhitayran may still be weak mentally but that doesn't mean we should assume certain things.
This is a fantastic and unbiased assessment of Rooney. The best I've seen on the Caf.
I think its fair to assume. He's not playing for a reason.
I'd love to understand why he'd milk it, I just can't see it, specially when he's at a new club and with everything to prove.
I don't think Mou is saying anything which everyone of us haven't said at some point over the post couple of years that they have been mentally weak and do not have the United attitude. It's time some of these players have been called out. Some of them clearly are putting themselves above the club and they need to go. As for Miki, I totally want him to be given a chance and it just seems there is more to the surface and there must be a reason where he has fallen so much from Mou's grace.
Fair point but I think it's clear that player power has reached a certain level within the club under Moyes and LVG which Mou thinks should not continue. It's actually apparent on the pitch where some of them don't have fight and fold when things get tough. If Mou wants his own players in and to get rid of talented but mentally weak players he should have that perogative. Three years under three different managers and the ship still has not been righted. Maybe it's not just the manager anymore.
Mourinho mentioned them both before the game. Didn't say either were injured, worded it more like they told him they could not play.
More I think of this the more I'm not sure whether this was a bad thing. Smalling and Shaw both had shockingly bad performances in their last games so maybe forcing them to continue playing isn't the best thing to do.
Smalling is woeful. We're benefiting from Rojo in the starting 11 at CB. Yes, we lost on Thursday but one of those goals was a free kick and the other one was out of this world. Can't really fault the CBs for that.
I don't think Smalling should play another game for us after that horror show against Chelsea. Thats up there with some of the worst defensive displays I've ever seen from a defender. If Mourinho's mind was made up about him after that, I wouldn't blame him.
As for Shaw, he's not living up to the massive potential. People were saying he was gonna be the best LB in the world, and right now, it doesn't even look like he's gonna be the best LB in England. Bertrand, Rose and a few others are comfortably ahead of him. If we were to sign Bertrand, he would do a better job for us than Shaw. I'm sure of that.
Point I was making was maybe Smalling put in such a horrible performance because he wasn't fully fit and shouldn't have played in the first place.
Douche, yet again - calling out players in the press is bad enough but to scapegoat them for not playing through pain is truly remarkable. No self respecting footballer will heed that sort of criticism from someone who never played the game themselves as a professional
Next he will start bullying the medical staff and they will all resign.
Before his injury, Shaw had over a period of 2-3 seasons put in some pretty brilliant performances for a young defender. And I never heard any negative talk regarding his attitude whatsoever. I think its only natural that he'd want to be extra careful regarding injuries for the immediate future, and as one of our best talents I'd expect us to give him a year of not being the best thing since sliced bread. To me, that just seems logical. So while we dont know the complete story, it's one that I find bemusing given Shaw seems a good kid and is talented enough for us to be a bit patient with him post injury.
I do have big doubts over Mourinho's man management skills as well. They were extremely dodgy in his last two jobs. And his constant moaning about everyone surrounding him is worrysome. All I can hope for is that he is reasonable with the players behind the scenes and ends up getting the best out of our best talents rather than pissing them all off.
Klopp did the same with Sturridge last season didn't he?
It's clear to see that Shaw and Mourinho doesn't really get along, will be a shame if a world class talent is let go.
It's clear to see that Shaw and Mourinho doesn't really get along, will be a shame if a world class talent is let go.
What a lot of crock and let me tell you if those guys he's calling out are not prepared to listen to one of the most successful managers ever. Then they don't deserve to be playing at a club like Manchester United. What the feck does it matter if he played pro or not? There are plenty top pros that have made shambolic managers. Look across to London there is another legendary manager over there who never competed at a high level. Disclaimer before anybody brings Fergie into it he was actually a very good player albeit not a top international.
And it is one of the reasons why public shitting on players is bad.
Fans and media don't know shit properly and immediately those players get bashed on. What's the point other than making more negativity and toxic atmosphere everywhere?
What happened with klopp and sturridge was completely different though. In terms of context and situation..
Having said that i still didn't love that klopp said it.
Quite surprised at all the praise he's getting.
Is he right in calling out players he thinks aren't pulling their weight? Absolutely.
Is he wrong about the mode he's chosen to do so? Absolutely again.
Having a go at your players in the media and inviting more questions and speculations helps no one. Running a tight ship and keeping these things in house should be common sense imo. Give them a piece of tour mind in private and tell them to man the feck up. The journalists deserve feck all and shouldn't be in the loop. It's bad man management as it'll make things worse given it'd now out in the public forum.
Is he right in calling out players he thinks aren't pulling their weight? Absolutely.
Is he wrong about the mode he's chosen to do so? Absolutely again.
Having a go at your players in the media and inviting more questions and speculations helps no one. Running a tight ship and keeping these things in house should be common sense imo. Give them a piece of tour mind in private and tell them to man the feck up. The journalists deserve feck all and shouldn't be in the loop. It's bad man management as it'll make things worse given it'd now out in the public forum.