Lingard, Starter, Sub, or cash in?..

Bruno8 said:
People harshly judge him on his 1st season in the PL playing in the 1st Team after being out for a year. Of all the new players playing in their 1st season in PL last season Jesse was probably in the top 5. He will be even better in his 2nd season and will offer more than the expensive signings
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if he was memphis everybody would say how promising he was in his first season in the EPL...

deserves a chance to prove himself under Mou, he could suit his more defensive and counterattacking style, he could actually be what he needs for CAM/one of the two b2bs, that's where his most exciting games came from and where he showed potential, he's only above average winger as his dribbling or skills and pace were never top, but he's got positional sense and good movement off the ball, linkup play and working hard for that position so he can score some goals while helping out at the other end of the pitch..

certainly miles better than Rooney or Depay last season so don't know where all the hate and this not good enough for MUFC came from, he already had better season than the two mentioned and several others
 
Cash in I think. For the sake of his own career. I don't think he has what it takes at this level. I like him, he's positive in his thinking but he just doesn't have the ability to play at this level and he's not even that young. He's not even that young, he should really be vying for a starting position at this point.
 
I will be very disappointed if Lingard is sold. He has earned another season in the first team squad
 
He's not a bad player and has had some good moments (FA Cup final and the goal against Chelsea come to mind), which I think most people would agree with and for the moment is worthy of a squad place but IMO if you want to be successful across a number of competitions a 'squad player' has to be able to reach similar levels to the player he is replacing.

I get the home grown/academy argument but if he was playing for Southampton would we be interested in bidding for him? I can't imagine that we would, which kind of says it all for me - that he's not a player we would actively want to pursue but because he's here already and fulfils home-grown criteria, so he'll do for now, which is fine but if/when we return to being in the latter stages of the CL and challenging for the league, you'd think he's the type of player that will have been replaced by then.
 
SSSSnake said:
Not his energy, work rate and the odd goal from midfield?

We need squad players like Jesse.
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He is an attacking player, he plays as a winger or an attacking midfielder and he has scored 6 goals and 1 assist in 33 games. Moreover he cannot track back and tackle and is poor at marking opposing creative players. What do we need that energy for. The first thing that springs to my mind when energy is mentioned is Park. He was a terrific squad player. Lingard has 5% of his qualities. He is just a poor player...
 
OzKangarooney said:
He has decent off the ball movement, he pops up in space around the box a good amount and his defence from the wing is not too bad either
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Excuse me mate but I totally disagree with you. Decent is the best you can definie his off the ball movement. In many games he did not know what to do and where to be. I find his defensive work mediocre as well. I really do not think that he should be playing for the biggest club in the world that is striving for titles. Even as a squad player. Do you think that Barcelona, Real, Bayern,etc. would keep a player like that in their squads because of mediocre defensive work and the fact that he has the energy to run around.
 
Percy17 said:
I guess you didn't watch the league last season did you.
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Does my opinion that he is not good enough for the team somehow imply I did not watch the league last season? We should be aiming higher than Lingard, if we want to challenge for the title I don't see Lingard making a huge contribution.
 
No way should we sell Lingard.

We aren't exactly stacked with attackers and Jesse always give 100% for the team. Good squad player.
 
Slavkov said:
He is an attacking player, he plays as a winger or an attacking midfielder and he has scored 6 goals and 1 assist in 33 games. Moreover he cannot track back and tackle and is poor at marking opposing creative players. What do we need that energy for. The first thing that springs to my mind when energy is mentioned is Park. He was a terrific squad player. Lingard has 5% of his qualities. He is just a poor player...
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Park is a good reference point. He was never a nailed on starter except when in patches of good form, but always a great option to have in the squad. I don't think we would see Lingard as United standard had he not come through our academy. It's a little bit like when Cleverley was first touted as a replacement for Scholes (we don't need Sneijder we have Cleverley anyone?), and then as a useful squad player, and then eventually just not good enough. Lingard is going down the same path.
 
Akshay said:
Park is a good reference point. He was never a nailed on starter except when in patches of good form, but always a great option to have in the squad. I don't think we would see Lingard as United standard had he not come through our academy. It's a little bit like when Cleverley was first touted as a replacement for Scholes (we don't need Sneijder we have Cleverley anyone?), and then as a useful squad player, and then eventually just not good enough. Lingard is going down the same path.
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Absolutely agree, if he was not an academy graduate he would never be reckoned good enough to even think about playing for United.
 
Slavkov said:
He is an attacking player, he plays as a winger or an attacking midfielder and he has scored 6 goals and 1 assist in 33 games. Moreover he cannot track back and tackle and is poor at marking opposing creative players. What do we need that energy for. The first thing that springs to my mind when energy is mentioned is Park. He was a terrific squad player. Lingard has 5% of his qualities. He is just a poor player...
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Spot on. Prior to his FA Cup goal he hadn't scored or assisted in his previous 15 appearances. For someone who got as much time as he had, that is absolutely shocking.

LVG was a nutter, no chance does Mourinho spoil Lingard in that way.
 
Slavkov said:
Excuse me mate but I totally disagree with you. Decent is the best you can definie his off the ball movement. In many games he did not know what to do and where to be. I find his defensive work mediocre as well. I really do not think that he should be playing for the biggest club in the world that is striving for titles. Even as a squad player. Do you think that Barcelona, Real, Bayern,etc. would keep a player like that in their squads because of mediocre defensive work and the fact that he has the energy to run around.
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let's just twist the facts, dunno what's more of a bullshit if the first part or the second
 
Slavkov said:
He is an attacking player, he plays as a winger or an attacking midfielder and he has scored 6 goals and 1 assist in 33 games. Moreover he cannot track back and tackle and is poor at marking opposing creative players. What do we need that energy for. The first thing that springs to my mind when energy is mentioned is Park. He was a terrific squad player. Lingard has 5% of his qualities. He is just a poor player...
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??
 
m1y2 said:
if he was memphis everybody would say how promising he was in his first season in the EPL...

deserves a chance to prove himself under Mou, he could suit his more defensive and counterattacking style, he could actually be what he needs for CAM/one of the two b2bs, that's where his most exciting games came from and where he showed potential, he's only above average winger as his dribbling or skills and pace were never top, but he's got positional sense and good movement off the ball, linkup play and working hard for that position so he can score some goals while helping out at the other end of the pitch..

certainly miles better than Rooney or Depay last season so don't know where all the hate and this not good enough for MUFC came from, he already had better season than the two mentioned and several others
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He wasn't better than Rooney and arguably even Depay, never mind miles better better. Lingard scored 6 and assisted 4 which isn't bad but even though Depay was universally regarded as poor he still scored 7 and got 3 assists. Rooney was awful before Xmas but way better in the new year, overall he got 15 goals and 6 assists. I would agree he had a better season than Depay, his overall play was better but not better than Rooney for me.

I'm all for Lingard staying and hopefully improving i think he can become a good impact player. But seriously people in here seem to vastly overrate or underrate the guy, he was decent last season leaning towards poor at times, good at others. Before his goal in the Cup final he didn't score or assist since early February which pretty much summed up his season, decent hard working little player that kept things ticking over but didn't have much effect on many games.
 
Slavkov said:
Absolutely agree, if he was not an academy graduate he would never be reckoned good enough to even think about playing for United.
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I agree with this. Academy players get preferential treatment on here no matter how crap they are. I understand it, but I don't agree with it. If a player isn't good enough then they're not good enough, I don't care whether they've been in our academy or whether they cost £30m.

Just look at how much criticism players like Depay and Fellaini get in comparison to Lingard, but Lingard is just as bad if not worse. The kid is destined to end up at Sunderland or some other bottom half team.
 
Its crazy how much people write him off on here. I think Lingard is a very solid player and he scored a few important goals for us last season, including the FA cup winner! He might not be the fastest, strongest, smartest, and most skillful player on our roster, but he is solid in every aspect of his game. I must admit, he has frustrated me with his performances many times in the past. His finishing is probably what is giving him such a terrible reputation.

Does anyone take into account how quickly he has improved year over year? Just because he isn't 18 years old, doesn't mean he can't continue to improve. This past year should have taught us all that age doesn't matter(to an extent) when it comes to improving yourself as a player. Vardy, Payet, Mahrez, Drinkwater, Kante and Dier come to mind. Only one of those players is younger than Lingard.

Lets give the lad a chance to continue improving. Why sell him? We won't get a proper fee for him, at least not what we should be getting for him. If he went to another PL club, he would give us trouble every time we played them. It seems to always work out that way.

I do agree that our academy players seem to get preferential treatment on here, but why is that a bad thing? Shouldn't we stick by the player that has been with us since he was a child? He is one of our own and nothing is more enjoyable imo that watching one of our academy players succeed here.

Its extremely unfair to want to get rid of Lingard just because he isn't starting quality yet. He will be a very solid option off the bench and who knows? Maybe he will continue to develop and become a mainstay in our team in a few years(him and Pogba could be the dab brothers? :lol:). I'm not ready to quit on him yet. Come on Jesse, prove me right! :)
 
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m1y2 said:
let's just twist the facts, dunno what's more of a bullshit if the first part or the second
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How am I twisting the facts? He is just an average player. He even did not get in the provisional England squad. The worst England team ever...He would not be anywhere near the squads of those teams mentioned. Look at their teams, do you think he would get there? Apparently you are seeing something in him that I don't...
 
OzKangarooney said:
He has decent off the ball movement, he pops up in space around the box a good amount and his defence from the wing is not too bad either
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Yeah, hiding to not get a pass. Certainly decent. And I've seen it in person at OT more than once this past season.
 
It would be good for the club if he stayed - good cover for a few positions, homegrown, somebody for academy players to aspire to etc. I think Jose will like him as a squad player. I don't think he will manage to be a first time regular though so I'm not sure it's best for him to stay - he would be better pushing on and getting regular top flight football at another club.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
I agree with this. Academy players get preferential treatment on here no matter how crap they are.
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The exact opposite. Witness you calling our academy players crap, while you wax lyrical about any old signing provided they cost a bit of money e.g. Depay and Fellaini. I wonder whether you have a pair of eyes. Last year our youth: Lingard, TFM, CBJ, Rashford, and even Riley, generally out-performed, expensive, imported, experienced, better paid, stars.
AndyJ1985 said:
Just look at how much criticism players like Depay and Fellaini get in comparison to Lingard, but Lingard is just as bad if not worse.
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Lingard might not be technically as good as Memphis but he is a better performer. Last year, Lingard's scoring and assist record was better than either Depay or, the supposedly 'effective' Fellaini.

I repeat: we should keep Lingard because it incentivises our youth to keep trying for a first team place. Better to sell Memphis or, especially Fellaini.
 
Definitely keep. He's done himself not disservice last season. Homegrown and won us the FA cup. Would be Welbeck-like demoralising to see us ship him off (no, I'm not saying he's better than Danny).
 
m1y2 said:
if he was memphis everybody would say how promising he was in his first season in the EPL..
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That would be 100% true, if in fact, there was any semblance of truth in it. Have a gander at the Depay thread.
 
stevoc said:
He wasn't better than Rooney and arguably even Depay, never mind miles better better. Lingard scored 6 and assisted 4 which isn't bad but even though Depay was universally regarded as poor he still scored 7 and got 3 assists. Rooney was awful before Xmas but way better in the new year, overall he got 15 goals and 6 assists. I would agree he had a better season than Depay, his overall play was better but not better than Rooney for me.

I'm all for Lingard staying and hopefully improving i think he can become a good impact player. But seriously people in here seem to vastly overrate or underrate the guy, he was decent last season leaning towards poor at times, good at others. Before his goal in the Cup final he didn't score or assist since early February which pretty much summed up his season, decent hard working little player that kept things ticking over but didn't have much effect on many games.
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Yup.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
The exact opposite. Witness you calling our academy players crap, while you wax lyrical about any old signing provided they cost a bit of money e.g. Depay and Fellaini. I wonder whether you have a pair of eyes. Last year our youth: Lingard, TFM, CBJ, Rashford, and even Riley, generally out-performed, expensive, imported, experienced, better paid, stars.
Lingard might not be technically as good as Memphis but he is a better performer. Last year, Lingard's scoring and assist record was better than either Depay or, the supposedly 'effective' Fellaini.

I repeat: we should keep Lingard because it incentivises our youth to keep trying for a first team place. Better to sell Memphis or, especially Fellaini.
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It actually wasn't Lingard had 6/4 and Depay managed 7/3 so pretty much identical.
 
------- Matches - Goals - Assists - Yellows - Pass%
Memphis: -- 45 ----- 7 ------ 5 ------- 4 ---- 79%
Lingard: ---- 39 ----- 6 ------ 4 ------- 8 ---- 85%

Similar, and both were better than Mr 'Effective' Fellaini. I remember a few of Memphis's goals/assists coming against inferior opposition too. Lingard is also more defensively committed so is, all round, a more useful team player. I would not sell either unless a decent ££ offer were on the table. Selling for peanuts or sending on loan is not an option, but that seems to be what most of his haters here want. We do not have any depth at #7 despite Micky's arrival. Young, Memphis, Januzaj, Martial all play better on the left wing. I guess we could play Young or Valencia at #7 but they're getting on. If someone wants to give us serious money (>> £20m) for Lingard we should consider it. Otherwise keep.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
------- Matches - Goals - Assists - Yellows - Pass%
Memphis: -- 45 ----- 7 ------ 5 ------- 4 ---- 79%
Lingard: ---- 39 ----- 6 ------ 4 ------- 8 ---- 85%

Similar, and both were better than Mr 'Effective' Fellaini. I remember a few of Memphis's goals/assists coming against inferior opposition too. Lingard is also more defensively committed so is, all round, a more useful team player. I would not sell either unless a decent ££ offer were on the table. Selling for peanuts or sending on loan is not an option, but that seems to be what most of his haters here want.
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I would agree overall Lingard had a better season than depay, but thats not saying much as depay was very poor for the most part. But even so he still racked up similar numbers to Lingard who many seem to think was one of our better players. So although i hope both improve next year i think Depay has a better shot at having a long term United career.

Mark Pawelek said:
We do not have any depth at #7 despite Micky's arrival. Young, Memphis, Januzaj, Martial all play better on the left wing. I guess we could play Young or Valencia at #7 but they're getting on. If someone wants to give us serious money (>> £20m) for Lingard we should consider it. Otherwise keep.
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We should definitely keep him and see what he can do, if an academy player can improve and become a good squad option great. I also agree about Januzaj he's definitely a left winger for me, Van Gaal i don't think ever gave him 90 mins there so it's no surprise he has struggled. Of the 3 players discussed he has the most potential for me.
 
If Jesse is being judged on last season alone then 20 players (from a 26 man squad) need to be sold first before his future is even up for discussion
 
The guy is also a smart kid, he knows when and where to make runs, he just lacks the killer instinct to be a top player. Great hustle guy who will be very useful in Jose's setup which requires a lot of running.
 
SSSSnake said:
Not his energy, work rate and the odd goal from midfield?

We need squad players like Jesse.
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I agree. I'll be pleased to see him get some games. For such an unfancied player, he's got some goals in him. I think his finishing and composure around the goal will improve. He seems to be a coachable player so we could see continued growth this year.
 
Definitely keep him, as he seems to be someone with a real passion when playing for the club. I would like to think that he'll flourish under Mourinho, and I actually believe he will, but I keep thinking that about literally any player in our squad.
 
Interested to see if the pre-season (including Shield game) sees him getting many minutes or not. I know a lot of people seem to think Mourinho would like him but I don't really agree. I think he was just a player Van Gaal latched onto and stuck with regardless of performance.

He's not overly quick, lacks above average decision making on the ball, can't finish for beans, can't cross and generally a bit lightweight. All of that could improve but he's no spring chicken. I'm not saying Jose will definitely sell Lingard but I struggle to see why he would be enamoured with him.
 
I'd like to see him kept as a squad player. Jose might not agree though. I'd expect to see him stay for this season at least.
 
Slavkov said:
He is an attacking player, he plays as a winger or an attacking midfielder and he has scored 6 goals and 1 assist in 33 games. Moreover he cannot track back and tackle and is poor at marking opposing creative players. What do we need that energy for. The first thing that springs to my mind when energy is mentioned is Park. He was a terrific squad player. Lingard has 5% of his qualities. He is just a poor player...
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I can think of numerous occasions where Jesse defended well and tracked back. It's part of his game. He's no world beater but he's proven he can be a squad player. The below players are also attacking players but you would hardly call them shit attackers.

De Bruyne 7
Yaya Toure 6
Sterling 6
Ozil 6
 
He definitely will be kept this season as a squad player.

He plays a big dynamic in the team and is one of the big personalities in the dressing room. He has also come through the ranks and very close to Rashford. Plus he can nick you a goal.

His game time will be reduced to 20-25 games next season, but he can still contribute to the team.
 
Isn't he friends with Pogba. He's probably doing his agent work as we speak.
 
Even before Mourinho came in, I thought, long term, Lingard could end up (no sniggering please) a Frank Lampard-type player, running from deep, getting on the end of attacks and chipping in with vital goals.

Of course he's nowhere near that level but Lampard, when he started at West Ham, was criticised in very much the same way. High energy yes, but wayward shots, erratic passing and a certain lack of finesse.

But he became one the PL's finest players. I'm not saying Jesse could be the same but, frankly, all the basic tools are there. It's up to him.
 
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