See, like i said, TWO wonderkids....

Rooney is clearly better. Ronaldo has been relatively dissappointing this season, well since September anyway. We must not forget that the death of his father and the rape allegation must have been very worrying for him. His decision making lets him down at times. Superb on Saturday, it probably helped him that he was playing on the same side of the pitch as Robert whos probably the worst wide player at tracking back. Rooney could play any number of positions but clearly its as a number 10 that hes most effective and a lot tends to go through a number 10 whereas at times wingers can be isolated.
 
Facts as they stand regarding Ronaldo and Rooney.
Despite thier potential both still have weaknesses to thier game as commented by Keane. Keane has said their decision-making has to improve as well as end product and teamplay.
However alot of people seem to think the opposite and that Rooney has great end product. However the reality is he does not score enough or create enough to justify accolades his way of excellent decision-making, magical passes etc.

The fact is Rooney needs to improve his goalscoring , temperament and work towards becoming a better teamplayer. Before Argentina he went 16 months without a goal for England. Also apart from his debut vs Fenerbahce--he has not scored in two seasons of the CL so far.

Ronaldo needs to play earlier balls, cut down on needless tricks, stop diving, and stop taking crazy shots from long distances.

If both work on thier weaknesses and play as part of a team unit rather than individuals they will come very good.

ps to those going on about Rooneys assist for RvN vs Charlton. Sure it was a good run however the pass was not in his path that he could volley first time. So the ball was was'nt the best of passes but RvN made the most of it.
 
Mithun said:
and stop taking crazy shots from long distances.
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To be fair that goes for Rooney too, perhaps even more for him
 
agreed wancolos

rooney does sometimes go for really ambitious shots and it results in a turnover of possession. Both need to look and take the simple option. That is why someone like RvN excels here--he rarely tries anything flashy, does not hog the ball more than is necessary and is alert enough to slip in a good pass to the wings and run into the box for the return.
 
Mithun said:
agreed wancolos

rooney does sometimes go for really ambitious shots and it results in a turnover of possession. Both need to look and take the simple option. That is why someone like RvN excels here--he rarely tries anything flashy, does not hog the ball more than is necessary and is alert enough to slip in a good pass to the wings and run into the box for the return.
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Kanoute.
 
both rooney and ronaldo should pass more. whilst rooney should be encouraged to shoot--passing is also a good alternative.
 
People may have misunderstood what i meant by this thread (heaven know's why *** it's clear), but i was not trying to raise a debate over who is better out of Rooney and Ronaldo, i was simply pointing out that we have two fantastically talented youngsters, both of whom are just 20, and both have their faults. For me, Ronaldo and Rooney are probably equally talented, although Rooney is more matured in his game than Ronaldo.

Just that i remember a time when everyone used to say 'we have two of the world's best young players', and i was just pointing out that that situation is still there. Ronaldo has had off field difficulties this year, and of course he's doing the new country thing. Yet he was voted our best player by our own fans at only 18, and also lit up Euro2004. He's had performances for us that Rooney would have struggled to match himself, but his brilliant performances from out wide will be different from Wayne's in the hole. But his performance in games like the Fa Cup final (both against Milwall and Arsenal) for example had everyone drooling, but now i get this whole 'Ronaldo is crap' vibe, which is basically bollocks. If he signed for Barca or Chelsea we'd probably realise what we're missing.

Basically, who cares who is better? And as Plech keeps bloody saying, it's not a question of someone 'liking Ronaldo more than Rooney'. It's a question of acknowledging that we're fortunate to have two very talented 20 year olds, as opposed to one. Simple.
 
kanchelskis14 said:
People may have misunderstood what i meant by this thread (heaven know's why *** it's clear), but i was not trying to raise a debate over who is better out of Rooney and Ronaldo, i was simply pointing out that we have two fantastically talented youngsters, both of whom are just 20, and both have their faults. For me, Ronaldo and Rooney are probably equally talented, although Rooney is more matured in his game than Ronaldo.

Just that i remember a time when everyone used to say 'we have two of the world's best young players', and i was just pointing out that that situation is still there. Ronaldo has had off field difficulties this year, and of course he's doing the new country thing. Yet he was voted our best player by our own fans at only 18, and also lit up Euro2004. He's had performances for us that Rooney would have struggled to match himself, but his brilliant performances from out wide will be different from Wayne's in the hole. But his performance in games like the Fa Cup final (both against Milwall and Arsenal) for example had everyone drooling, but now i get this whole 'Ronaldo is crap' vibe, which is basically bollocks. If he signed for Barca or Chelsea we'd probably realise what we're missing.

Basically, who cares who is better? And as Plech keeps bloody saying, it's not a question of someone 'liking Ronaldo more than Rooney'. It's a question of acknowledging that we're fortunate to have two very talented 20 year olds, as opposed to one. Simple.
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You should have your 'vibes' seen to
 
Rooney's miles better

I don't understand why anyone would claim otherwise?
 
Dunno

But people do sometimes....they say "but Ronaldo's equally as good" or the like

Which is silly..
 
Acknowledging that we're lucky to have two class 20-year-olds over and over again gets boring after a while

Whereas reminding people that those who like Ronaldo better than Rooney are bent has, at least for me, a sort of endless fascination
 
Davo said:
Dunno

But people do sometimes....they say "but Ronaldo's equally as good" or the like

Which is silly..
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I doubt many think that. I for one think he's equally as TALENTED, but certainly not equally as good. Again, however, comparing them was never my point. Just trying to get Ronaldo a little recognition as well.
 
Is he feck

He's not equal in any sense whatsoever...

Why would anyone claim such a thing?
 
Davo said:
Is he feck

He's not equal in any sense whatsoever...

Why would anyone claim such a thing?
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It's just how i personally analyse football, and what i define 'talent' as. For me, talent has not one bot to do with team play, understanding of the game etc. All of that is learnt. There are probably many people who are more talented than Fletcher who arent even professionals, but they were just born gifted. Fletch is probably a better midfielder than all of them because he understands more than them.

For me, Ronaldo not creating enough goals for instance is due to him not releasing the ball on time or taking on too many men. Ability-wise, of course he can, which makes it more frustrating. Park is nowhere near as talented as Ronaldo, but he may well be a better player. For me, to see 'talent', i'd take away rules and take the two players to the park and let them kick a ball around. What would Fletch do, start 'covering space' in a one on one? Start 'tracking back'? No, that isn't talent, that is learning to play the game.

Denilson and Djalminha may are probably no less talented than Ronaldinho in the sense that they can probably do everything he can do with a ball. Ronaldo probably could too, but Rooney's strenghts may lie elsewhere, and perhaps come into play in a match situation with teamates and tactics etc.

Joe Cole is miles more naturally gifted than Beckham, i've watched Joe Cole train loads of times, he can do anything you see Zidane do in all of these compilations. Yet he isn't as good a player as Becks. For me, Ronaldo is not inferior to Rooney in terms of ability, but in a game, it takes more than that, it takes maturity, mental strength and an understanding of the constant movements of every other player on the field. It is due to this that Rooney is better in my opinion.
 
kanchelskis14 said:
It's just how i personally analyse football, and what i define 'talent' as. For me, talent has not one bot to do with team play, understanding of the game etc. All of that is learnt.

For me, Ronaldo not creating enough goals for instance is due to him not releasing the ball on time or taking on too many men. Ability-wise, of course he can, which makes it more frustrating..

For me, Ronaldo is not inferior to Rooney in terms of ability, but in a game, it takes more than that, it takes maturity, mental strength and an understanding of the constant movements of every other player on the field. It is due to this that Rooney is better in my opinion.
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Don't agree with any of those points.....plus, mental strength and understanding movement is far more of an ability than being able to do a circus trick.
 
Keane16 said:
Don't agree with any of those points.....plus, mental strength and understanding movement is far more of an ability than being able to do a circus trick.
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It's not ability, it's learned. 'Circus tricks' are not all there is to football of course, i never claimed that. But it is the rawest form of talent, street football, the kind the greatest players ever to play learned on the streets of Brazil etc. That's ability.
 
kanchelskis14 said:
It's not ability, it's learned. 'Circus tricks' are not all there is to football of course, i never claimed that. But it is the rawest form of talent, street football, the kind the greatest players ever to play learned on the streets of Brazil etc. That's ability.
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No. Those tricks no more an of an ability, than having great vision is 'learned'.

Those tricks are learned in a far more regimented way than the ability to sense the movement of players, which is innate.

Repitition v. intelligence.
 
Keane16 said:
No. Those tricks no more an of an ability, than having great vision is 'learned'.

Those tricks are learned in a far more regimented way than the ability to sense the movement of players, which is innate.

Repitition v. intelligence.
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You don't 'sense' the movement of players. No need for stuff like 'repetition v intelligence' either, just opinion v opinion. That is how i view football, simple. Take someone who is a street football pro who has never played competitive or team football for instance, who can do just about anything with a ball. Is he less talented than Fletcher, who may have had limited 'ability', yet can still become a good midfielder by years of coaching and learning where to be and basic bleep tests which mean you can run. Do you think a coach can teach Fletch or even Rooney to do some of the stuff Ronaldo does? However, can't a coach teach Ronaldo how to play centre midfield? Yes, because the ability of a footballer is there.

Anyway, this is just a simple opinion, which you aren't obliged to agree with of course. It wasn't even the main point of my thread anyway.
 
kanchelskis14 you're talking shite. How did Ronaldo learn his moves?

By doing them over and over and over and over again.... That's called learning.

Ronaldo does the same trick he's learnt over and over again, Rooney is always pulling something new out of his hat with his footballing intelligence.

You're totally bent concerning your views on what is talent and what isn't.
 
You're wrong (kanchelskis). Decision-making and understanding the pattern of a game are as much natural talent as learned. I'm much more skillful on the ball than some of my mates, probably from spending more hours a day than them kicking one about as a kid, but some of them just have a sense of when to release, when to run, where to move into space, that i will never have. I went to the same training sessions as them at school, they always had it, I didn't and never will.

As for Fletcher, he was regarded as hugely talented as a kid. Bobby Charlton said he was one of the most talented young players he'd seen. I saw him at youth and reserve level and he was pure class, his passing was superb. Why he can't do it on the big stage, and why he sometimes miscontrols it and looks awkward, I don't know, probably to do with confidence and other mental stuff as much as anything. But there is, or was, a lot more to his game than tracking back and covering space.
 
Even if you practice day and night, you will never be as skillfull as Ronaldo. The guy has natural talent, he was born with that. Doing tricks at this level is very tough, especially when every defenders expects you to do a trick. Yet he manages to pass players because he has a talent people will die to have.

You can learn every other aspect of football. But you can't learn to move your legs as quick.

Rooney might be better, but Ronaldo has achieved more than him (he won us the FA Cup 2 years ago and led Portugal to the finals at Euro 2004).
 
Stop comparing them.
Everybody knows Rooney is better, Ronaldo has the potential to become the best player on earth and Rooney is much uglier....
 
bigjet66 said:
Even if you practice day and night, you will never be as skillfull as Ronaldo. The guy has natural talent, he was born with that. Doing tricks at this level is very tough, especially when every defenders expects you to do a trick. Yet he manages to pass players because he has a talent people will die to have.

You can learn every other aspect of football. But you can't learn to move your legs as quick.

Rooney might be better, but Ronaldo has achieved more than him (he won us the FA Cup 2 years ago and led Portugal to the finals at Euro 2004).
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Jesus...the same thing over and over. No-one's denying Ronaldo has talent, particularly talent at dribbling and doing tricks. It's just Rooney has more talent, and is better, considerably.

Rooney got injured at the Euros, and Ronaldo didn't "lead" Portugal to the final either.
 
Does everyone agree that Rooney is the better of the two?

I can't see why anyone would suggest otherwise?
 
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