Any idea where I can find this? I wasn't around when this went down.
What Now For Moyes?
- Thread starter Buchan
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Any idea where I can find this? I wasn't around when this went down.
Are British managers too pragmatic? Why do they not put as much emphasis on playing attractive football?
Extremely surprised no one picked up on my comment from a few pages ago...
Alas, tis the Cafe's loss
Alas, tis the Cafe's loss
Extremely surprised no one picked up on my comment from a few pages ago...
Alas, tis the Cafe's loss
Classical or electric?
Moyes' favourable coverage was similar to that of Hodgson at Liverpool. I think this has a lot to do with how certain managers "work " the press pack. They wine and dine them, they feed them leaks and recruit loyalty. The press reciprocate with positive coverage with disproportionate fawning and gushing praise.
When Hodgson arrived at Liverpool the narrative offered by the journos was that he'd inherited a midtable side incapable of playing football. Liverpool drew to Arsenal in Hodgson's first match with just ten men and the Sky monkey asked Carragher in the tunnel after the game if the "new" fighting spirit was down to the new manager. It was nonsense. A month into Hodge's reign Liverpool lost at home to Northampton. I heard 5live blaming the result on Rafa's terrible squad. It was nonsense. But it became the prevailing guff that we were being sold. Hodgson was the knight on the white horse arriving to save Liverpool from Benitez the Bastard.
Moyes received similar protection when his team was failing - it was all the squad's fault.
When Hodgson arrived at Liverpool the narrative offered by the journos was that he'd inherited a midtable side incapable of playing football. Liverpool drew to Arsenal in Hodgson's first match with just ten men and the Sky monkey asked Carragher in the tunnel after the game if the "new" fighting spirit was down to the new manager. It was nonsense. A month into Hodge's reign Liverpool lost at home to Northampton. I heard 5live blaming the result on Rafa's terrible squad. It was nonsense. But it became the prevailing guff that we were being sold. Hodgson was the knight on the white horse arriving to save Liverpool from Benitez the Bastard.
Moyes received similar protection when his team was failing - it was all the squad's fault.
Extremely surprised no one picked up on my comment from a few pages ago...
Alas, tis the Cafe's loss
I noticed but didn't want to pry.
The press looking after British managers. They're desperate to see Brits do well and understandably so
Said I'd donate 20 quid to the Caf if Moyes gets a job before Christmas. I believe he won't work again
Oh you!
Aye...Brendan Rodgers, a self confessed Irishman, is apparently British now
My dislike for him means they can claim him all they want though
Moyes is going to end up like Alan Curbishley. He is mad if he thinks a top club will put up with his shocking brand of football. This is before we talk about how no top player will have any respect for him. Even his former players at Everton were already criticising him just a month after Martinez took over. He should simply humble himself and accept a less glamorous job like Mclaren and Sparky have.
Football management is also quite incestuous which is why the media have been reticent to criticise Moyes and so had a go at the players. Players are on the whole transient and have a short time span whilst managers have a longer potential working life - they feed info to reporters who then want to keep a manager in place to maintain the flow of information. The only way the journalists can perpetuate this is if a sacked manager is regarded as not to blame for the problems at their former club. This then means the manager gets a new job and the journalist keeps on getting their information. It's one of the main reasons why it's hard for young managers to break through - even though the press whinge about how few young managers there are in football it's actually the last thing they want. Plus they built Moyes reputation - to challenge it would mean they would have to admit they were wrong. But mainly they want to maintain the old guard that they've developed a strong relationship with. It's in the journalists best interests to maintain the reputation of Moyes - and others - if they want stories and access in the future. Hence, the media want to keep the same cartel of managers to maintain their supply of info - keeping it all in the family.
Spot on mate, there is no doubt Moyes just like Hodgson did this. Seen a few journalists recently (i think Bates & Ogden) say Moyes was taking them all out to dinner during Uniteds tour last summer. He was according to them laying out his long term plans for United and wanted them to know he would be very accessible.
Moyes obviously suspected things could go tits up fast and wanted the press on side to protect him, it worked well for him to a point, the lack of criticism probably bought him a few extra weeks/months.
What was the reaction to Rodgers side losing to Oldham?
It was a cup shock. It was quite a story if I recall. I'd also say that Rodgers wasn't entirely warmly regarded by journos (see Tony Evans of The Times) in his first few months but I would say that it was seen as a very different job to that of Moyes and Hodgson. The comparisons aren't relevant to the point I was making. He was in a position where he took over a club that had been wallowing in the mire for a few years. It wasn't a club that had spent seasons in the CL or getting to CL finals or semis is recent memory.
Do you remember how giddy it was on here? Mods changing their names to Moyses and such.
Most peculiar.
Most peculiar.
You'll get there one day Grinner! Wenger will retire and you'll feel that same sting.
I dare say I should change your name to Grinnger.
To be honest it'll be hard to arse up the appointment of a new manager like the way we've done with Moyes.
These things happen. You only get one roll of the dice, you never know what is going to come up. The main thing is the board saw the need to move on and looked to move in a positive direction and didn't labour.
A brief educated insight would've informed the board that they were appointing someone with no trophies in his decade in management, no CL experience and a proponent of industrial football. This isn't a wise hindsight view. What unfolded was widely predicted beyond a sycophantic press rabble who sustained their loyalty to the guy longer than many fans.
Not at all. They could just appoint Moyes.
But.. but Moyes was cut from the same cloth as Ferguson, stability, longevity, loyalty and he was scottish yadda yadda yadda...
The truth is probably we had absolutely so selection process, we just asked Ferguson and he picked his mate who had never won so much as a teapot. Alarm bells should have rang unfortunately they didn't.
The truth is probably we had absolutely so selection process, we just asked Ferguson and he picked his mate who had never won so much as a teapot. Alarm bells should have rang unfortunately they didn't.
How many trophies has Brendan Rodgers won? Look at Diego Simeone's career pre- Atletico. Klopp relegated Mainz etc, etc. The Moyes hiring failed but, it was not ridiculous to think he could be a success here. We took a risk and it did not work out it happens.
But Moyes had spent 10 years losing virtually every big match his team played not to mention the brand of football that team played. Rodgers, Simeone and Klopp were younger without a career of near misses behind them. They also took over clubs that were a project so could grow into their roles. Moyes took over a dominant team who had just walked the league. He was tasked to sustain the level. Different on many levels.
Fergie messed up and the pieces are still being gathered.
Plenty of examples to show he was destined for failure.
Exactly. There were hordes of people here (including me) who were insistent on the fact that Moyes shouldn't be written off based on his exploits with Everton. We firmly believed that having more money and a better squad at his disposal will bring out more from him.
I generally agree with the point that his journalist friends had an agenda in protecting him for so long while they were very impatient with some of the other managers but that aspect is being over emphasized here. A lot of people (including journalists) fell into the trap of believing that Man Utd is some sort of a moralistic organization who would not taint themselves by getting into the manager sack race. We always give managers time and hence we chose someone who showed longevity above instant success and hence rejected candidates who were experienced in managing at this level.
All the crap that came out from the club around the appointment of Moyes reinforced this point and we set ourselves up for failure at that point itself by giving Moyes an idea that he is not on a short leash. What happened from then on was nothing short of catastrophic.
And there were some examples of how he could have succeeded. Decent record of giving youth a chance, supposed to make us hard to beat by drilling defensive discipline into training, good eye for a bargain in the transfer market. The fact is that no one expected the entire team to collapse like it did. A manager failing is one thing, but to nearly destroy the club by causing rifts in the first team is what sealed his fate imo.
You aren't serious right?!
Yeah, but they won't be rash and they'll learn from our mistakes.
Don't worry they'll appoint Tony Adams.
Hence why rolling the dice can come up snake-eyes every now and then.
When United almost had the pick of world football why did they have to take that kind of gamble? Of course nothing is guaranteed but there's rolling the dice and then there's making an informed and educated punt - why didn't United opt for the latter?
Could be wrong but don't think it's anymore complicated than the simple fact that Ferguson chose him, as the club felt he had earned the right to do that.
Retirement, plastic surgery, move to Monaco with a new identity would be the most hassle-free option for him.
Wait for the next autobiography, I wasn't in the board room.